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Rice refuses to predict US out of Iraq within ten years |
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| Oct21-05, 05:00 AM | #18 |
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Rice refuses to predict US out of Iraq within ten yearsThe fact is no matter what we say or do, no matter when we say we will leave or when we do leave, the insurgency will not change. Look at the Algerian conflict---it parallels this very well---or Viet Nam. In the end both of those conflicts were lost because leaders in lands far-far away didn't think things out. Couple a growing dislike for both conflicts at home (as is the case here) and there you go. What's odd is that people are defending Rice when she clearly refused to set even a ten year time table. The admin needed a new home for its military bases and Iraq was the best choice. Saudi Arabia was costing us too much (Bin Laden: where is he) but we couldn't simply cut and run from the region all together. They felt we needed to protect our interests in the region and as such they are moving us in "indefinetly". They thought toppeling an unpopular dictator would give them an open door and a warm bed to crawl into; however, they failed to analyze the situation beyond their grandeous ideals. As you said Rice could have answered the question, but she didn't. She chooses not to think for herself, but instead tows the line. She deserved the tounge lashing she got and then some. The admin has been asked these questions time and time again and always responds the same way. Rummy, Rice, Powell, you name'em, have all given the same answer. As time has progressed so has the disdain toward the answer. The senator in question wasn't "bullying" the witness. The witness, and those like her, have repeatedly dodged this question and MANY senators are getting tired of the canned answer. It's not bullying to demand an answer from a witness especially when there have been multiple attempts to get this answer (I would venture a guess of about a dozen attempts in the last two years from the senate). |
| Oct21-05, 06:03 AM | #19 |
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Recognitions:
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faust,
Just for the record I will tell you what I think. At the time and to the present I think it was a mistake to go into Iraq . The evidence was flimsy (wrong gauge aluminum tubes for centrifuges was hysterical) and I didn't think the consequences were fully thought out. Regarding WMD, Saddam did, in fact, have them. He used them on the Kurds and in the Iran-Iraq war. The world's intelligence agencies and leaders from Arab nations all said he had them. There is no record or documentation of them having been destroyed. It wasn't that much of a stretch to believe he still had them. Nevertheless, the evidence was not airtight. It is a stretch, however, to call it a lie. Adequate justification for going to war? I doubt it but I don't think it's all black and white. Does Bush have other geopolitical aims for the region? Almost certainly. Do any of us have facts to back that up? No we don't! Unless you have SCI you don't have access to that kind of information (and I don't think anyone here does). In any case, the US in there and I think it would be a grave error to withdraw immediatey. Regarding the exchange between Ms. Rice and the Senators, I thought it was made clear very early on that the Secretary of State did not want to answer the timetable question, for whatever reason. It's pretty tacky for a Senator to persist tenaciously when he's been given clear indications from a member of the Executive Branch (remember separation of powers?) that she's not going to answer the question. We're not talking criminal investigation here and there is no reason why respect and manners shouldn't prevail. Moreover, she is not the person with the authority to decide on withdrawal or a timetable. Nevertheless, the spinmeisters will have a field day with it. I guess it makes them feel better or something but the shrillness and animosity are neither productive nor informative. In the meantime, I look forward to your posting pictures of those permanent air bases being built in Iraq. :) |
| Oct21-05, 11:37 AM | #20 |
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People may note that liberals are just as concerned about leaving Iraq in chaos as Bush supporters may be. The difference is whether one falls for the nation-building spin. This is a policy worthy of serious debate that seems to be ignored. In the meantime, the Bush administration does not want to admit to failure, or to lose their last hold on their base. They want people to accept a long-term vision—with no mile stone measurement--so they don’t have to answer to anything while they try to recover popularity. An exist strategy is needed, preferably with international efforts, which would be helpful to everyone including Iraqis. I have yet to see anyone substantiate how a plan would be truly detrimental, and find it illogical that people think having no plan is a good thing. |
| Oct22-05, 01:21 PM | #21 |
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[edit] I never said air bases, I said permanent bases. This has not been confirmed, however there is base construction going on with a permanent nature along with temporary base construction as well. [/edit] |
| Oct22-05, 04:46 PM | #22 |
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Doesn't the US have bases in a lot of countries?
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| Oct22-05, 04:50 PM | #23 |
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| Oct22-05, 05:34 PM | #24 |
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We lost our presence in Iran, countries like Egypt only pretend to be pro-West, and all the countries including the Saudi's are facing immense pressure from their populace about U.S. presence there... What should we do, what should we do? |
| Oct25-05, 02:06 AM | #25 |
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It is the presence of American bases and soldiers (infidels) in Saudi Arabia that prompted Al Qaeda to attack the US. |
| Oct25-05, 03:54 AM | #26 |
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Yeah ... and if it is a secret base, you can spot them by the people standing outside with the Yankee Go home signs.
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| Oct25-05, 03:57 AM | #27 |
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"You keep me in power as a despot and I let you harrass the Chinese" Mutually beneficial ... Yup. |
| Oct25-05, 02:18 PM | #28 |
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Admin
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How Scary Is This?
By BOB HERBERT, Op-Ed Columnist, NY Times, October 24, 2005 |
| Oct25-05, 02:41 PM | #29 |
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Thanks Astronuc. Wow.
(I also submitted a picture to "Sorry everybody" dot com, but I don't know what page it's on.) And, not trying to derail, just piping up that these actions have indeed been shameful. |
| Oct25-05, 02:52 PM | #30 |
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As if this was some big secret...
Watch PBS
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| Oct25-05, 03:28 PM | #31 |
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First we had WMD, then Iraqi freedom, then Democracy for Iraq, then defeat the insergents, then defeat global terroism. And not it is to "fight Radical Islam wherever it endangers peoples who love freedom." When it comes down to making a decision on which side to support , moderate Isalm will support Radical isalm. That will leave us facing an enemy numbering close to one billion. |
| Oct25-05, 03:52 PM | #32 |
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Admin
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I heard this today - http://www.alternativeradio.org/programs/GLAA001.shtml
How America Lost Iraq Aaron Glantz In Iraq, most of the corporate journalists, when they venture outside their heavily guarded hotels, travel with US troops and base their stories on what the military tells them. Not so- Aaron Glantz, who went to Iraq totally un-embedded. And what he learned initially was not what he had expected. Most Iraqis welcomed the Americans and patiently accepted the hardship and destruction as a final sacrifice on their way to freedom. But as the occupation dragged on, and as living conditions and the security situation steadily worsened, the Americans were no longer viewed as liberators, but as oppressors. Glantz's eyewitness account gives insight into what is fueling the insurgency in Iraq. Aaron Glantz Aaron Glantz, a reporter for Pacifica Radio, has been to Iraq many times. He is the author of "How America Lost Iraq." Bush, Cheney and Rumsfeld blew it from the beginning. |
| Oct25-05, 06:03 PM | #33 |
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Then we get the litany of others from Venezuela to China. Africa's still miffed on the Aid for Aids shortchange for joining the coalition of the willing. Turkey still holds a grudge over the Airport thingy. The Phillipines and Spain are miffed because of their treatment when they left Iraq. France is still pissed the US served Burgers and Freedom Fries at the Nato meeting. Canada is seeing a revival of the softwood lumber thingy. Japan is livid the US wouldn't support their UN bid. Ummmm ... Have I missed anyone? Oh, yes they told the president of Taiwan to STFU about independence. Have I mentioned the US MIGHT have a problem with isolationism? |
| Oct25-05, 07:46 PM | #34 |
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Good to have you back TSM.
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