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    GR, SR and the Sagnac effect question

    http://www.rta.nato.int/Pubs/RDP.asp?RDP=RTO-AG-339 [Broken] There's a link to the NATO explanation that was prepared by a coalition of scientists and says GR is required... Hence my confusion.
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    Gravity/acceleration equivalent?

    Oh, okay, so you are saying that you observe gravitational time dilation only if you share the same accelerated coordinate system? How then can we on earth observe gravitational red shift when observing stars and their light as they pass by massive objects etc. etc? We are not in their...
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    Gravity/acceleration equivalent?

    I don't know that I understand your point. "Its a chemical-reaction force that accelerates a rocket, not a gravitational one." In the end I really don't care what force accelerated something not under the influnce of gravity. But what I am saying may be obvious to your or something I guess. All...
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    Gravity/acceleration equivalent?

    I read from the link Jesse posted and it was interesting but it didn't seem completely relevant to the context. Unfortunately I don't entirely follow what you are saying about taking gravitational time dilation into account above. We factor out anything wrt the earth's gravity because it is...
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    Gravity/acceleration equivalent?

    Umm. Okay. Mind giving some detail/qualification? Which part? Can you explain how your answer relates to the experiments I cited earlier?
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    Gravity/acceleration equivalent?

    Okay, so the point is here that he's actually receeding from the frame that the emitter was in at the moment of emission. No problem. Where I'm having a problem is that the top astronaut should be experiencing time faster than the bottom one if they are truly in a gravitational field. If they...
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    Gravity/acceleration equivalent?

    Ok. Yeah, I see what you are saying. Acceleration causes no time dilation is the point that the experiment proved. Gravity does. While that doesn't specifically fit with the thought experiment's criteria because of the need to communicate at a distance, there's still a difference between...
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    Gravity/acceleration equivalent?

    I probably just don't understand the context... I was under the impression that there were time effects from gravitation alone and that there were well known in regards to muon decay. The SR effects are there and are exactly as predicted, but any GR time effects that one might incorrectly...
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    Gravity/acceleration equivalent?

    F. J. M. Farley, J. Bailey, R. C. A. Brown, M. Giesch, H. J¨ostlein, S. van der Meer, E. Picasso and M. Tannenbaum, Nuovo Cimento 45, 281-286 (1966), "The anomolous magnetic moment of the negative muon" Above, they measured muon decay under many thousands of "G" from acceleration in a storage...
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    Photon's Perspective of Time

    Well heck, if we're going to bring philosophy and reasoning into it then things can get a lot more interesting. Mathematically describe categorizations. It's a matter of opinion whether or not concepts that Math cannot describe are valuable or not. Zapper ascribes to the "not valuable"...
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    GR, SR and the Sagnac effect question

    I've read in multiple locations that GR is necessary to properly explain a co-rotating perspective/observer of the experiment. Additionally, SR can explain the experience of non-inertial observer. The above two statements seem somewhat conflicting and leads to my question. Why is it that...
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    Muon Centrifuge question

    I apologize for being so vague. I didn't mean the variation from one side of the planet to the other. I meant the variation from aphelion to perihelion.
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    Muon Centrifuge question

    Well, as you might have guessed I'm still fond of reading nonsense becasue I like finding questions to which I currently do not know the answer. Then I can go about getting the answer! I lightly perused the paper you mentioned above and found an interesting quandry. Whyare clocks on...
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    Most persistent myths.

    It's for deciding when two branches are equally valid in all but complexity. ID and evolution are not equal in their ability to predict and describe. So I'd say that would qualify as another of the horrible abuses that make people think occams razor is crap. I believe it is useful at a micro...
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    Oregon Vortex

    You can just google it so I won't get in trouble for linking to it. Anyone ever looked at it? It looks like just optical illusion silliness to me but is there any possibility of some other sort of thing going on? Was just wodering if anyone ever did anything meaningful there in the way of...
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    Muon Centrifuge question

    Google Scholar is turning out to be pretty knifty :biggrin: It reports 36 citations and of the papers I could actually get my hands on, they didn't seem to be critiques. Maybe someone else has better resources though.... mine are overly limited. Here's the google scholar search link...
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    Muon Centrifuge question

    Though I've seen a least a few quotes in which Einstein himself postulated a universal reference frame that was the gravitational mean of the universe, it's not a very popular idea. :uhh: Though I didn't thoroughly examine the paper you mention, after perusing, it seems as though the author...
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    Most persistent myths.

    Nice that this thread came back from the dead so close to halloween! Back on Occam's Razor: From a signature above... "Everything should be made as simple as possible, but not a bit simpler." -Albert Einstein Moral of the story is that when you know for certain(in as much as humanly...
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    Can Artificial Intelligence ever reach Human Intelligence?

    The thing is that once we truly replicate child's intellegence, human-like intellegence will immediately follow. Knowing that you exist and relating to things around you; "Understanding" is required for human-like int. Not just running a program, even though that is certainly a part of it...
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    Muon Centrifuge question

    So, the sagnac effect and RLGs don't require the use of GR at all as I've been led to believe? It seems like SR alone is not only all that is needed but all that is appropriate. What is the reason why some believe the GR is the only theoretical treatment that will truly work? In this NATO...
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    Muon Centrifuge question

    What determines depth in a gravitational field? I don't entirely follow. :blushing: Pervect: I don't actually have the book, thanks for some info on it. Do they give the reference for the publication of the experiment? It sounds like you are recapping that there is no time effects from...
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    Muon Centrifuge question

    I've found mentions of the experiment all over the net.... The idea is simply that there were no additional gravitational effects on time aside from the local lab-frame. All effects were exactly as predicted by SR. Hence a centrifuge does not mimic gravity in all ways. The explanation of...
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    Can Artificial Intelligence ever reach Human Intelligence?

    Personally I define understanding as both a primary similarity (links) engine and secondary difference engine (details) linked to motivations, with a prognostication component on the side. Understanding is just linking things together and then linking them to your wants and basic motivations...
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    Muon Centrifuge question

    I'm speaking of the Muon decay experiment which showed no additional gravitationally related time effects in a centrifuge... Firstly does anyone have a real reference for the experiment? All I find are offhand mentions of it. The only identifying info I've gotten on it was that it was in 1966...
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    Ghost Hunters

    It gives me an idea for a reality show. Take a different set of people each show to some remote location that none of thm have heard of and don't tell them if it is really supposedly haunted or not. Just that they have a 50% chance of staying in a haunted location but they will be givin a...
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    Can Artificial Intelligence ever reach Human Intelligence?

    As someone with AI programming experience as well I'd have to say yes, though I don't think we're on the right path in the industry at the moment. Programmers and those who understand human emotion are almost mutually exclusive. That's the real reason we've not seen artificial intellegence...
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    Global warming caused by sun?

    Either way, it's a a hilarious thread! Perhaps the Snowball Earth theory didn't require all the proofs they found to account for the total freeze and thaw. Perhaps the sun isn't as stable as we believe it to be. Sun worshippers from ancient times: "We gotta do something about this...
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    Interesting Stuff

    In the text you quoted he didn't give the answer of the direction it spun... He did however relate that he was incompetent in his expectations of failure when putting pressure into a corked bottle... :grumpy: Additionally, if centripetal force is the only consideration then why do firemen...
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    Light: Wave or Particle?

    ZapperZ: So you are saying that transparency is actually linked with the resonant frequencies / modes / etc of a solid?
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    Light: Wave or Particle?

    Doesn't quantum uncertainty make it where they are not necessarily in any one place at any one time but basically to our peception because we tested it, it seems so. Or something like that... I mean, a single photon cannot really be constrained by time as we are otherwise it's speed could not...
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