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  1. Les Sleeth

    Split From Epistemological Standards in Theory-Formation

    Mr. Dawkins did claim the article found here - http://dir.salon.com/story/news/feature/2005/04/30/dawkins/index.html" [Broken] - that "billions of clues" and "millions of facts" support evolution, and he said it in a way that gives the clear impression the whole of Darwinism is supported by...
  2. Les Sleeth

    Split From Epistemological Standards in Theory-Formation

    Well, evolution is the best example I know of where belief is coloring the picture presented to the public. The Dawkins quotes you deleted show him doing what I've seen done many times, which is to state there is vast evidence ("billions of clues") like that evidence supports every bit of...
  3. Les Sleeth

    Epistemological Standards in Theory-Formation

    It isn't a fair comparison. I am not trying to exclude an entire realm of knowledge, as scientism believers are. Further, the realm they want to exclude they know nothing about; they simply want to exclude it because they can't study it within their belief system. I, on the other hand...
  4. Les Sleeth

    Epistemological Standards in Theory-Formation

    First, I have not in any way, shape or form challenged the efficacy of science. I understand it is a method of investigation, and it most definitely produces knowledge. So let's not have any more defenses of science because it doesn't need it. Yes, science is stuck with a physical...
  5. Les Sleeth

    Epistemological Standards in Theory-Formation

    Well, if the only "discoveries" you allow to be added to the mix are physical discoveries, why don't you think that is a filter? But I don't judge scientists at all, what I am judging is a type of mentality. Some scientists have it, some don't. As I have said many times here at PF, I...
  6. Les Sleeth

    Epistemological Standards in Theory-Formation

    Be careful what you represent me as saying. I have never said science doesn't reveal the physical world to us better than any other approach. What I did say is that it is one thing to claim you are discovering the physical world, and another to claim the universe is nothing but...
  7. Les Sleeth

    Epistemological Standards in Theory-Formation

    First let me apologize for being less than clear about my point, and that I made it off topic from original thread. My main point is what a priori “belief” does to objectivity and our ability to conduct intelligent discussions. It appears to me from your statements that you “believe” lots of...
  8. Les Sleeth

    Epistemological Standards in Theory-Formation

    I so 100%, totally, beyond all doubt, agree. :tongue2: If I understand you, a "believer" cannot be objective. If that isn't what you meant, please feel free to ignore the rest of my post. Now, you seem to criticize theories that "are not particularly scientific." Does that mean you...
  9. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    I wrote a bunch of stuff, but after thinking about it I deleted it. Maybe what you say here is more important than differences in the details.
  10. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    You are just misunderstanding me. I said that in this discussion I am not trying to argue whether there is a heaven or hell, or whether there is not heaven and hell (what I believe about them is irrelevant to my point). I have only been trying to argue that burning forever in hell cannot be...
  11. Les Sleeth

    Imagine this Bizarro situation . . .

    If you examine how the majority of people are, we want to feel good, and personally I think that is our nature. The problem is, we don't know how to achieve it full time. Most people have concepts about what will make them happy, from being the smartest person or the best athelete to having...
  12. Les Sleeth

    Imagine this Bizarro situation . . .

    :rofl: :rofl: :rofl: Good answer. I should have said without others saving your sorry a**.
  13. Les Sleeth

    Imagine this Bizarro situation . . .

    . . . you get a job to clean up an old house. You descend to the basement and find a single Superman comic book sitting innocuously next to the long-broken dehumidifier. You open the comic book to find a Bizarro edition of the series where Superman is in a world that is reversed. If he says...
  14. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    Fine so far. I didn’t say both thieves went to paradise; I said there is nothing Jesus is recorded as saying that clearly indicates because one doesn’t end up in paradise means one ends up burning in hell for eternity. I am not arguing the truth of falsity of hell or heaven, only what we can...
  15. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    There is no evidence, and it is utterly illogical to assume, that hell is what he didn't speak. And what should we substitute for our own experience? Religious dogma passed down from . . . who knows? I haven't disputed choice, I have disputed that saying the thief could be in heaven has...
  16. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    I wouldn't disagree (though I don't like to join in). However, all I have said is that it is a mistake to confuse religious belief with the possbility that the universe is conscious overall, and that some successful introspectionists have developed a way (through union/meditation) to...
  17. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    Yes, that’s right sA, you are the one making up Jesus and bullying, not me. I can tell from what you say you don’t know squat about the documents, so why are you acting like you do know. If somebody comes here talking about God being energy, that quantum mechanics proves free will, or some...
  18. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    That is funny, but it has a serious side to it as well. Let's assume we have free will, which most people believe they do whether they are theistic or atheistic. But . . . We are also subject to conditioning (whether from repetitive behaviour, brain washing, one's biology, or whatever)...
  19. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    I don't understand you at all. Who cares what the "Christian God" is or isn't? You openly criticize religion (and that is putting it mildly), and then stoop to arguing about its nonsensical concepts. Why bother? Religion is pieced together, with pieces here trying to fit with aspects of...
  20. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    Well, have you ever said hell, or "for heaven's sake" or "she's an angel," or any of the other of dozens of phrases common to our language that have religious or supernatural implications? It is downright silly to take every word Jesus said, or without taking into account what later redactors...
  21. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    He spoke of heaven there, not hell.
  22. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    He said nothing definitive at all about it. He said nothing that can't be realisitically interpreted (i.e., without the slightest stretch) as someone speaking in the language and colloquialisms of the day. I was reading a Richard Dawkins paper yesterday, a devout athiest, explaining how he...
  23. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    Of course, the problem with these types of discussions is that we must divorce ourselves from reality to discuss issues intellectually. No one is questioning all the assumptions we need to have in order to talk about things. Above you say the "Christian God," and I understand you are talking...
  24. Les Sleeth

    The soul - good and/or evil?

    If we can research the history of ideas behind any belief, why evaluate beliefs on face value or accept common opinion as worthy of discussing seriously? The concept of judgment in Western religion, for example, is linked to the very old Jewish idea that bad things happen to people because they...
  25. Les Sleeth

    Animal cruelty: root's of societal ignorance

    That's a good point, and I don't buy idealism/sentimentality about animal suffering. In past threads we've discussed that in the wild, many if not most animals would suffer a lot more painful death than the instant kill we provide for them. I grew up with former farmers :tongue2: and visited...
  26. Les Sleeth

    Scientists and Atheists Should be Moral Absolutists

    To all of that I say, you could use a little sincerity.
  27. Les Sleeth

    Animal cruelty: root's of societal ignorance

    My answer would be, it isn't about the roots of societal ignorance, but, as you can see from some of the answers in your thread, about human insensitivity to other living beings. Once one feels other's suffering, even for bugs, it is hard to allow them to suffer. Lacking feeling? No problem...
  28. Les Sleeth

    Scientists and Atheists Should be Moral Absolutists

    You are being clever. There is a difference between acceptance of the way something as consciousness "works," and assuming. You can blur the distinctions if you want, but it is little more than sophistry. If water freezes when the temperature is low enough, that's the way it works. If water...
  29. Les Sleeth

    Scientists and Atheists Should be Moral Absolutists

    Science, philosophy and logic are, or are dependent upon, rational processes which of course rest on assumptions. But I wasn’t talking about rational processes, but another sort of conscious process which with practice one can develop. Keep in mind, I have not said anything against...
  30. Les Sleeth

    Can Someone Explain Jitter Commonsensically?

    Hmmmmm, exactly the improvement I observe. Every instrument is made more distinct, every note more clear. Most of the recordings I am comparing I've listened to for years, so I can easily tell the difference. Plus, I've been upgrading all aspects of my system, one component at a time, with...
  31. Les Sleeth

    Scientists and Atheists Should be Moral Absolutists

    It can be explained in terms of just about anybody’s favorite theory, but of course that doesn’t make it so. Creationists might explain it in terms of God, atheists may want to make it genes. If you believe a priori that you are nothing but a physical thing or a spiritual thing, then every...
  32. Les Sleeth

    Scientists and Atheists Should be Moral Absolutists

    When people believe something is true from being trained by their culture (or an aspect of it), or if they believe it out of dislike or fear of some other belief system, then they are susceptible to seeing things as they imagine them to be, as well as susceptible to ignoring, glossing over, and...
  33. Les Sleeth

    Can Someone Explain Jitter Commonsensically?

    Can Someone Explain "Jitter" Commonsensically? What mystifies me is why jitter correction should make such a difference to the sound quality of music. Based on reviews of this product . . . http://www.monarchyaudio.com/DIP.htm . . . I bought one used for a mere $150 to see if it would help...
  34. Les Sleeth

    Scientists and Atheists Should be Moral Absolutists

    I agree with you that morals are about individuals, but I'd add that it also primarily has to do with human interaction. I think to understand what morals are one has to try to understand why the first ones came about. It is my opinion that morals evolved as social mores meant to preserve the...
  35. Les Sleeth

    How many of you have not had a bf or gf?

    I was just teasing you, don't take anything I said seriously. :smile: However, love does seem to be difficult to maintain for many people. One thing I've learned (and am still learning) is to separate the experience of love from "love objects." If I want to stay in the experience of love, it...
  36. Les Sleeth

    I got Chicken Pox

    Watch out for shingles at 46.
  37. Les Sleeth

    How many of you have not had a bf or gf?

    Being the current philosophy guru :cool: I must point out that you certainly could be married without meeting a girl you fell in love with. You might be an illegal alien hoping to stay in the US, you might have mistaken hornyness for love, you might have gotten so drunk in Las Vegas you thought...
  38. Les Sleeth

    How many of you have not had a bf or gf?

    Is that before or after getting married? o:)
  39. Les Sleeth

    What birds do you have at your place?

    Well, it's funny because before I started watching them, if you'd asked me how many different birds were around I might have said 20 or so. Once I started paying attention I couldn't believe how much I was missing. There are some avid birders around here. Once I made the mistake of telling a...
  40. Les Sleeth

    What birds do you have at your place?

    Sometimes it is hard to see all the features of a bird without binoculars, so it might have other markings you are missing. As turbo-1 said, most birds with orange have another color besides black. Also, sometimes immature males are different colors than mature males, like the Hooded Oriole...
  41. Les Sleeth

    What birds do you have at your place?

    Here 15 miles from the Pacific and 60 miles North of San Francisco I've personally observerd over a 10 year period. . . Great Blue Heron, Great Egret, Green-backed Heron, Killdeer, Sandpiper, Common Tern, California Gull,Herring Gull, Laughing Gull, Brown Pelican, White Pelican, Canada Goose...
  42. Les Sleeth

    $6 music and my current obsession

    Wow, great resource. I will use it to check out new music.
  43. Les Sleeth

    $6 music and my current obsession

    I hadn't seen them. Thanks. Is it possible fall in love with a voice? I am in despair because Lizz only has two albums. Cassandra is amazing too. Lizz Wright did Young's "Old Man," very nice. I didn't know that about Lennox. I love her voice. Thanks for the tip. Here's one for you...
  44. Les Sleeth

    $6 music and my current obsession

    I was just teasing you. I listen to jazz, and especially lady jazz singers. That's what happens when you get close to 60 yo . . . you get into the mellow stuff, jazz and/or classical.
  45. Les Sleeth

    $6 music and my current obsession

    Tool? Is that repairman music? Korn? Is that Midwest tunes? :confused:
  46. Les Sleeth

    $6 music and my current obsession

    Music lovers have to love this deal, all CDs $5.99 with free shipping, no tax. http://www.yourmusic.com/enroll/enroll_200507.html After all that choice I can't understand why all I want to listen to is Liz Wright singing Stop, I'm Confessin', and anything else she decides to grace with her...
  47. Les Sleeth

    How consistant are your beliefs?

    No way. Change requires a foundation that holds steady supporting change. Constant change isn't true constancy. Something that cannot lose essentialness is even when in change fits the bill.
  48. Les Sleeth

    A new record!

    I've used PF's search and Google and can't find the thread. Gotta link anyone? :redface:
  49. Les Sleeth

    How to determine the reality of mystical experiences?

    Right, I understand the basis of thought and communicating. I’ve looked ahead at the line of reasoning you will take and I think you are about to assume a couple of things I don’t. Just to give you a preview of where I am headed with this critique, I don’t think you are careful enough in...
  50. Les Sleeth

    Metzinger's Phenomenal Self

    That's pretty close to what the Buddha taught about the how people typically relate to as and see their "self." But here we have the statement of a person who simply doesn't know his "true" self. Do you conclude there is no ocean if you have always lived in the desert, and refuse to go look...
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