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mosassam
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Is there any aspect of QM that doesn't ultimately come down to the nature of consciousness?
mosassam said:it seems Scott is suggesting that QM can be derived exclusively via mathematics
although he does point out the usefulness of experimentation
As Abstract Thought (mathematics) is an aspect of human consciousness this may go some way to explaining why some QM models of reality seem constantly drawn to the nature of consciousness.
I'm not sure I see how the laws of physics are 'artifacts of the way we percieve the universe'. I assume the law of gravity was firmly in place long before human consciousness arose. On the other hand, as all data has to be processed by an aspect of consciousness I can see how everything is 'an artifact'.nabuco said:What perhaps QM is really showing us is that the so-called laws of physics are not real but simply artifacts of the way we perceive the universe. The laws of physics are what you get when you deal with a huge amount of data of which you understand absolutely nothing about. How do you deal with lots of data of which you understand nothing? Use probabilities!
Another important aspect of QM is that it removes the observer-observed divide which involves consciousness becoming part of the data that must be processed by consciousness. In QM there is a deep link between 'our minds and two dice rolling on a table", so to speak.To address your point, yes, in a way QM is strictly tied to the nature of conciousness, because it's the way conscious beings use to deal with data provided by the universe. But it definitely doesn't mean any of this new-age nonsense about some mysterious link between our minds and the world. Not anymore that there is a link between our minds and two dice rolling on a table.
mosassam said:I'm not sure I see how the laws of physics are 'artifacts of the way we percieve the universe'. I assume the law of gravity was firmly in place long before human consciousness arose.
On the other hand, as all data has to be processed by an aspect of consciousness I can see how everything is 'an artifact'.
Another important aspect of QM is that it removes the observer-observed divide which involves consciousness becoming part of the data that must be processed by consciousness.
In QM there is a deep link between 'our minds and two dice rolling on a table", so to speak.
Not at all.nabuco said:This may sound silly or irrelevant.
I fully agree. It seems to me that science, and in particular physics, is a crystallisation of Rational Thought and, as such, is finally reaching the threshold of its own limitations. There has always been a fractal nature to Rational Thought (reflected in Reductionism) that no matter what the 'object of thought' is, it can be divided into smaller 'objects of thought'. I believe, with the advent of QM, this process is laid bare in that we are possibly beginning to see that the classifying, analysing, labelling nature of Ratioinal Thought actually alters, and to a certain extent creates, the reality it wishes to objectively measure.wuliheron said:Another possibility is that we are reaching the limits of human observation and boardering on metaphysics. Thus the confusion about the ultimate nature of what we are observing is perfectly understandable, and understandably broad and fundamental.
As Allan Watts once wrote: "We are staring at god, and god is staring back."
I fully agree. It seems to me that science, and in particular physics, is a crystallisation of Rational Thought and, as such, is finally reaching the threshold of its own limitations. There has always been a fractal nature to Rational Thought (reflected in Reductionism) that no matter what the 'object of thought' is, it can be divided into smaller 'objects of thought'. I believe, with the advent of QM, this process is laid bare in that we are possibly beginning to see that the classifying, analysing, labelling nature of Ratioinal Thought actually alters, and to a certain extent creates, the reality it wishes to objectively measure.
It may be that when we do not think about it, reality (whatever that may be) disappears and that it exists only when we're "not looking".
alexsok said:Cosciousness is not QM. Penrose and his friend Hameroff did too much damage with these claims. Consciousness is most likely a biological phenomenon that is irreducible though. The universe existed long before we came into it and we are as disposable to it as our genetic vehicles are for life.
mosassam said:Certainly in an area like physics the emphasis would be heavily on the rational/abstract. I genuinely view QM as a path that leads to the redressing of this imbalance in that, in my opinion, QM may be leading thinkers to the very edge of Rational Thought.
What kind of comprehension lies beyond the boundary of Rational Thought?
QM stands for quantum mechanics, which is a branch of physics that studies the behavior of particles at a microscopic level. In recent years, there have been theories and experiments suggesting that quantum mechanics may play a role in understanding the nature of consciousness. Some scientists propose that the principles of QM, such as superposition and entanglement, may be at work in the brain and could potentially explain consciousness.
The idea of QM and consciousness has been around for decades, but it has gained more attention and interest in recent years. This is due to advancements in technology and research that have allowed scientists to explore the connection between the two in more detail. However, there is still much debate and ongoing research in this field, and it is not yet fully understood.
Currently, there is no definitive answer to this question. While there have been some intriguing findings and theories linking QM to consciousness, it is still a highly debated and complex topic. There is no one theory or explanation that can fully account for the nature of consciousness, and it is likely that it is a combination of factors, including QM, that contribute to our understanding of consciousness.
If QM does play a significant role in consciousness, it could have significant implications for our understanding of the brain and consciousness. It could potentially lead to new treatments for neurological disorders, and it may also have implications for our understanding of free will and the nature of reality. However, more research is needed to fully understand these implications.
Some people have drawn connections between QM and spirituality, suggesting that the principles of QM may align with certain spiritual beliefs or practices. However, this is a highly controversial and subjective topic, and there is no consensus among scientists on the relationship between the two. It is important to approach this topic with a critical and evidence-based mindset.