Is the Middle East's Troubles Linked to Israel?

[tumor]

Man! I'm getting pissed more and more at what Israeli soldiers do.They killed some time ago wheelchair guy and now childrens?!What the F***?
And what USA does of course nothing, and maybe even increasing cash donation.If not for Israel existence we and Arabs could have been best friends,but NO!, always that pesky little state screws something.
All the trouble in the M.East have something to do with Israel!
How come Kerry or Bush did not talk about Palestinians during debates? instead both of them congratulated themselfs on their childrens and wifes like this was some kind tea party.Americans/Canadians, we are screwed and I wish both of those countries go to hell I have no respect for its people who only care about their asses and pretending to be compassionate to others.
Brain washing workes well here, only hope I see is in few European/Asian countries and its wise people who always show class, intelligence and resistance to propaganda.
I, my friends live here in Canada, however each time when I'm in Europe one can see and talk to reall educated people instead of those automatons here who go to colleges/universities and what they bring back?things wchich 12-16 year old European student allready knew.
European or Asian 12 year old kid knows more about geo/politics and history than grown person here will ever know..it is soo sad.
People here are so easilly manipulated it is just mind bogling,is there something bad in the food? or what?
PS I hardly advise all of you,take a break from studying and go for European vacation.Then you know what I'm talking about.

 

[Hurkyl]

Brain washing workes well here, only hope I see is in few European/Asian countries and its wise people who always show class, intelligence and resistance to propaganda.

It's good to see you're not part of the problem!

 

[russ_watters]

Well, you got one thing right:

All the trouble in the M.East have something to do with Israel!

[almost] All of the trouble in the middle east comes from the arabs' desire to annihilate Israel. A little comes from the corruption that goes with having oil though.

 

[tumor]

You know what when I see on TV, jewish settlers armed to the teeth who speak perfect english with a brooklyn accent I ask my self what the hell they are doing there and want to smash that stinking tv to pieces.Apparently most of those settlers are from New York,they are American citizens.Was their life in states miserable?, did they suffered anti semitism? NO! NO! they act more like fifth column in my view.
Why would they chose to life in the middle of palestinian towns and be so stubborn and not understand thet they are blocking peace process.

 

[Fookie]

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

 

[Hurkyl]

jewish settlers armed to the teeth

You say this as if it means something. I understand Israelis are quite well armed in "safe" areas, so I would find it normal to see them armed in a more hostile area.

Apparently most of those settlers are from New York

And you determined this by seeing a couple settlers with what sounds like a Brooklyn accent?

they act more like fifth column in my view.

I don't understand at all; are you saying that these settlers are trying to undermine Israel?

Why would they chose to life in the middle of palestinian towns

Are they in the middle of a Palestinian town? I would have imagined that Israeli settlers would form Israeli settlements. Do you have a reference for this?

not understand thet they are blocking peace process.

I understand that the current Palestinian leadership will not accept any peace that permits the existence of Israel; it's kind of hard to block the peace process any further.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Why would they chose to life in the middle of palestinian towns

Are they in the middle of a Palestinian town? I would have imagined that Israeli settlers would form Israeli settlements. Do you have a reference for this?

The Jewish settlements are in among various existing Palestinian towns, not out in some uninhabited area. Come on, Hurkyl, you should be above playing dumb like that.

 

[Hurkyl]

http://www.ifamericansknew.org/

Given the highly asymmetric situation, I do not know how to compare these statistics.

Seriously.

For example, take the death and injury counts. In any conflict where side A is vastly superior to side B, I would expect side B to suffer more casualties than side A.

The death and injury counts bear out this expectation: Palestinians have, indeed, suffered more casualties than the Israelis.

This statistic, at least by itself, tells is nothing surprising, and certainly nothing that would condemn Israel.


This kind of site only preys upon the general public's lack of understanding of statistics.

 

[Hurkyl]

The Jewish settlements are in among various existing Palestinian towns, not out in some uninhabited area. Come on, Hurkyl, you should be above playing dumb like that.

Actually, I really am unaware! I've only seen stars on a map, or statements that they're settling in occupied territories. I don't recall ever hearing how the location of settlements relate to existing towns.

Sometimes, I really do ask because I don't know. :tongue:

 

[member 5645]

1>They killed some time ago wheelchair guy and now childrens?!What the F***?
2>And what USA does of course nothing, and maybe even increasing cash donation.
3>If not for Israel existence we and Arabs could have been best friends,but NO!, always that pesky little state screws something.

4>All the trouble in the M.East have something to do with Israel!

5>How come Kerry or Bush did not talk about Palestinians during debates?

6>instead both of them congratulated themselfs on their childrens and wifes like this was some kind tea party.Americans/Canadians, we are screwed and I wish both of those countries go to hell I have no respect for its people who only care about their asses and pretending to be compassionate to others.

7>Brain washing workes well here,

8> only hope I see is in few European/Asian countries and its wise people who always show class, intelligence and resistance to propaganda.

9>I, my friends live here in Canada, however each time when I'm in Europe one can see and talk to reall educated people instead of those automatons here who go to colleges/universities and what they bring back?things wchich 12-16 year old European student allready knew.

10> European or Asian 12 year old kid knows more about geo/politics and history than grown person here will ever know..it is soo sad.
People here are so easilly manipulated it is just mind bogling,is there something bad in the food? or what?

11>PS I hardly advise all of you,take a break from studying and go for European vacation.Then you know what I'm talking about.

1> That "guy in the wheelchair" was Hamas leader Ahmed Yassin. The man is directly responsible for hundreds of civilian deaths. Where is your rage at that? Where is your rage when a suicide bomber blows up a family restaraunt at dinner time, and Arafat refuses to do anything about it?
2> Do nothing? We have done more to broker a peace between Israel and Palestine than ANY OTHER COUNTRY ON EARTH. If Europe is so concerned, why haven't they pushed for greater strides in the process? We are left holding the bag of this messy situation.
3>Shoulda, coulda, woulda... Israel isn't stopping that anymore than the Palestinians themselves (Go read up on the history around black september to see what happens when surrounding countries try to assist with Arafat at the head )
4>Or you could say it ALL has something to do with Islam. But neither would be correct, and is just a scapegoat for those who want to point fingers.
5>Because we don't care. The policy is out there. Arafat has shown incapable of being a leader, and thus until he relinquishes power, there is no way to broker a peace agreement.
6>You seem very compassionate yourself.
7>you are showing this to be very true.
8>The Balfour declaration hails from Europe, and thus it's apparent you are ignorant on the history of this entire matter.
9>You are obviously a product of this highly 'flawed' system. Hurry, get out while you can. The grass is greener elsewhere, from what I understand.
10>Your rhetorical blathering hardly shows you as a shining example of NOT being manipulated.
11>You hardly advise it?

 

[omin]

The settlers are a bunch of idiotic religious f*!ks with a mental disorder that is based on a plan of revenge hundreds of years old that with there inability to see long term socio-physical repercussions will sink them into there own death.

They do have many patents overall as group of people, but there polititians have guaranteed state suicide for there people. The physical long term repercussion are unavoible with there abject terrorist attitude against the natural human instinct to cooperate and solve things diplomatically.

Bush and Kerry have intelligence problems. That's why they don't mention the Palestenians who are the front of those who will take care of the menace in their side. If you mention things quantitatively, supporting Israel is fools theory in the long run and more and more getting to the short run.

Power is decentralizing and that is the enemy of Isreal. For example, nukes and chemical solutions for the Argravant states such as Israel will equilize the ability to anhilate. See in the years to come...

 

[member 5645]

The settlers are a bunch of idiotic religious f*!ks with mental a mental disorder that is based on a plan of revenge hundered of years old that with there inability to seem long term repercussion will sink them into there own death.

They do have many patents overall a group of people, but there politians have guarnteed state suicide for there people. They physical long term repercussion are unavoible with there abject terrorist attitude.

Bush and Kerry have intelligenct problems. That's why they don't mention the Palestenians who are the front of those who will take care of the menace in their side.

Quoted for posterity.

 

[Prometheus]

Man! I'm getting pissed more and more at what Israeli soldiers do.

People here are so easilly manipulated it is just mind bogling,is there something bad in the food? or what?

Do you really believe that if you rant like an idiot and insult your readers that you will convince us that we should change our system of values to match yours?

Who is delusional now?

 

[Gokul43201]

Man! I'm getting pissed more and more at what Israeli soldiers do.They killed some time ago wheelchair guy

The guy in the wheelchair was a terrorist leader, responsible for ordering hundreds of killings.

and now childrens?!What the F***?

Perhaps you weren't watching your TV when they found a school kid crossing the border, strapped down with explosives ? And the actions of one or two errant guards do not belie a deeper, more widespread cruelty.

So, what's the argument in the favor of suicide bombers (paid by terrorist groups that are supported by the PA) that blow up tens of hundreds of children and elderly ?

And what is the solution ? Since we're all so brainwashed, perhaps you should tell us the overarching solution to this problem ? Or do you only engage in unsupported, incoherent rhetoric ?

 

[tumor]

The guy in the wheelchair was a terrorist leader, responsible for ordering hundreds of killings.



Perhaps you weren't watching your TV when they found a school kid crossing the border, strapped down with explosives ? And the actions of one or two errant guards do not belie a deeper, more widespread cruelty.

So, what's the argument in the favor of suicide bombers (paid by terrorist groups that are supported by the PA) that blow up tens of hundreds of children and elderly ?

And what is the solution ? Since we're all so brainwashed, perhaps you should tell us the overarching solution to this problem ? Or do you only engage in unsupported, incoherent rhetoric ?

Guy who shot this girl was officer of Israeli army not some lowly soldier and that mother f**** shot her many times in the head.
Solution to the problem or at least first step is very simple;stop giving Israel 3-billion $ a year and you will see difference.

 

[member 5645]

Guy who shot this girl was officer of Israeli army not some lowly soldier and that mother f**** shot her many times in the head.
Solution to the problem or at least first step is very simple;stop giving Israel 3-billion $ a year and you will see difference.

another solution is to nuke the entire middle east.
Either one is foolhardy rhetoric spouted by the uneducated.

 

[jcsd]

I'm sorry but anyone who likes too align themsleves with the settlers is just as bad i.e a neo-Nazi ****.

One of Israeol's major probelms is the fact that the IDF protect the settlers that are in Hebron when they manage to give the whole of Israel a bad name when these disproporptinately American immigrants, believe non-Jews are sub-human despite the fact that they live in a Palestinian town.

Personally I don't see why Israel needs to support these people when the only purpose they they seem to serve is to illusrate the racism in the israeli state.

 

[Preator Fenix]

Much can be learned from the Romans.
Isreal should really get to studing them.
It seems Isreal is somehow convinced that a displacced people will just go *puff* and disapper.
Isreal shouldn't play coy. It knew what it was getting into when it decided proclaim its existence.
Lessen numero uno amigos... there is but one solution to pacifying a displaced and aggitated people with the complete support of a ubran population. UTTER AND COMPLETE DISTRUCTION ala Sherman/Rome.

If you Isreal don't have the gonads to follow through with the killing of every last palestinian man women and childern like in the good old days, THEN DONT THINK FOR A SECOUND YOU WILL GET THAT LAND TROUBLE FREE. No palestinen WILL NOT leave. No palestineains WILL NOT stop their attacks.

Unless...
Isrealies realize that it BEHOVES THEM to stop the violance, and not the other way around. Maybe they will see that as long as a palestinian has no citizenship, either Isreali or Palestinain they WILL NOT BE COMPELED to abide by any civilized law? Maybe they will consider that some 20yr old dude who can't go to shcool becuase it's blown up, or go to a discotec to eventually get laid, or get any drugs or alcohol because the local stores have been demoilished,... well hell he will not HAVE ANYTHING ELSE TO DO BUT go jihad on your ass. To save you the trouble Isreal here is a list of things that you can do to fix the situation in a non violant manner.

-give the displaced people the protection of citizenship (perferrably Isreali, as that way you eventually inflitrate and assimlate their culture)
-INVEST IN PALESTINE. eg. build schools, hospitals, brothels, universitys, and other such stuff that has a habbit of keeping people TO BUSY TO GO AROUND BUILDING BOMBS. It awefully HARD to be a terrorist when your rolling in cash and benefiting from all these nifty western consumer goods.
-Stop hating. It wwwaaayy to late to start pointing fingers,... both your hands are elbow deep in blood.
-As long as a palestine see the horrible conditions in which he lives in and then see the plush settlers with their private cars, schools, malls, guards, and sporting the lattest faishon trends and eating three times a day well NOT A GOOD COMBINATION.
-Stop poking the damm beehive. Poking beehives has the only product of getting the bees to buzz. You want to get rid of the damm quee bee you pour gasoline on the damm beehive and light it up. Worker bees be dammed.

In summry... you can't have your cake and eat it to. You either use violance on a vast scale, or you shallow your damm pride and make consessions to your picture perfect view of jewish only state.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Rome did not utterly destroy its subject peoples at all, not even the Jews. It displaced the Jews who rebelled repeatedly and left peoples who went along alone, with their own religious customs and satraps of their own kind. Rome learned to do this from the Greeks, who learned it from the Persians, as described in the Bible (Ezra and Nehemah).

 

[tumor]

But guys, you all forgot about one thing,very important thing;who pays Israels bills and gives them military equipment? USA of course,and your tax dollars end up hurting Palestinians.
We have to vote those *******s in White House out of the office or start revolt here, there is no easy way.Democrats or Republicans support Israeli policy 100%.
This country must be awaken from this intellectual coma in which we are now and do what for example French did in 1789 .Revolution is the only answer.

 

[member 5645]

But guys, you all forgot about one thing,very important thing;who pays Israels bills and gives them military equipment? USA of course,and your tax dollars end up hurting Palestinians.
We have to vote those *******s in White House out of the office or start revolt here, there is no easy way.Democrats or Republicans support Israeli policy 100%.
This country must be awaken from this intellectual coma in which we are now and do what for example French did in 1789 .Revolution is the only answer.

In your blind blathering, you forgot that disagreeing with others doesn't make you right. (that Israel buys military aide from us, they don't just get it. They have paid back EVERY loan we have ever given. The only donations going to Israel are in private form)
I support a strong Israeli policy.

EDIT- you also apparently forgot to reply to any of my threads after I dissected yours.

 

[Gokul43201]

I'm sorry but anyone who likes too align themsleves with the settlers is just as bad i.e a neo-Nazi ****.

No one here has yet made that claim. On the other hand, hearing unsubstantiated, antisemitic hyperbole makes you want to play devil's advocate, no matter what the issue.

 

[tumor]

In your blind blathering, you forgot that disagreeing with others doesn't make you right. (that Israel buys military aide from us, they don't just get it. They have paid back EVERY loan we have ever given. The only donations going to Israel are in private form)
I support a strong Israeli policy.

EDIT- you also apparently forgot to reply to any of my threads after I dissected yours.

How about 3 bill.$ given to Israel every year?You can check in every book on m.east, about that much cash is given to them for sure without strings attached
They might pay for some of the equpment I agree,however we should not even sell them weapons which they use against civil population.
USA should treat jews and palestinians equally and then force them to sign peace plan, otherwise palestinians going to suffer even more.

 

[Aquamarine]

Here are a pro-Israel viewpoint on the conflict:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/

For example, about corruption in the Palestinian Authority:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf22.html#uu

Or Jewish refugees from Arabic countries:
http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf14.html#a

But I think that the creation of a Jewish state where there already existed a prior population was stupid idea with no good long-term solution. Although understandably the desire for a state and defence of their own was great after the Holocaust. It such a state was necessary, it would have been better in some uninhabited place in for example Canada or Australia.

 

[member 5645]

Tumor, you've made more claims in this thread than anyone. Why don't you start linking your claims? It will save me showing you them in context.

 

[tumor]

But I think that the creation of a Jewish state where there already existed a prior population was stupid idea with no good long-term solution. Although understandably the desire for a state and defence of their own was great after the Holocaust. It such a state was necessary, it would have been better in some uninhabited place in for example Canada or Australia.

Or on the Moon.

 

[Prometheus]

It such a state was necessary, it would have been better in some uninhabited place in for example Canada or Australia.

I suspect that this is a cop out. You are suggesting that the Jews be allowed to confiscate parts of Canada or Australia rather than Palenstine most likely because they are too civilized to have non-thinking suicidal psychopaths, and besides, Canada and Australia are not oil rich. Is that your point? If not, please explain.

 

[Aquamarine]

I suspect that this is a cop out. You are suggesting that the Jews be allowed to confiscate parts of Canada or Australia rather than Palenstine most likely because they are too civilized to have non-thinking suicidal psychopaths, and besides, Canada and Australia are not oil rich. Is that your point? If not, please explain.

Who said anything about confiscating? They could have bought a part, like they did with much land in Palestina. The point is that the land would have been uninhabited.

 

[Prometheus]

Who said anything about confiscating? They could have bought a part, like they did with much land in Palestina. The point is that the land would have been uninhabited.

I think that you are on to something. They could have moved Jerusalem either to Ayers rock or to the Arctic circle. Perhaps Ayers rock is closer in climate to the weather of Israel.

 

[Aquamarine]

I think that you are on to something. They could have moved Jerusalem either to Ayers rock or to the Arctic circle. Perhaps Ayers rock is closer in climate to the weather of Israel.

I consider the religious arguments to fall into the stupid category. Regarding weather, if they could make deserts green in Israel, why not in Australia.

Anyhow, what is a good solution?

 

[Prometheus]

I consider the religious arguments to fall into the stupid category.

Well, good for you.

Please explain why the Jews, and the Moslems, should be expected to agree with your characterization of "the stupid category", whatever that might mean to you. BTW, what does it mean to you?

 

[Fookie]

while muslims leaders corrupt and undemocartic ...israeli leaders HAVE NO RESPCT for palestininan life


none of em deserve to have control over jerusalem....if someone does then its the christians coz they've shown the most patience on this issue.

 

[member 5645]

SNIP

Hey buddy, you may want to delete that before you get banned.

 

[gravenewworld]

Perhaps you weren't watching your TV when they found a school kid crossing the border, strapped down with explosives ? And the actions of one or two errant guards do not belie a deeper, more widespread cruelty.

You clearly must have not read or heard the entire news story. The Israeli soldiers shot and killed a school girl wearing a backpack because they THOUGHT she was carrying explosives when in reality she was just running to school. After they shot and killed her, the Isreali soldiers' commander when up to the body and unloaded an entire machine gun magazine into the dead girls body. I think they found over 30 bullets in this little girl.

 

[AlexContourPlus]

**** those ***holes.

I don't really like politics much nor even do i want to be come one but after I read this ****ing news I got really mad. My words for those with no other comments are **** YOU **Holes.

I am really sorry for posting these dirty words but I can't really control myself at this moment. If you think it is bad of me to say something like that, please delete this post of mine and send me a note whether or not you agree with those ****ing Israeli behaviors.

Admin note: profanity removed.