Who invent things? Engineers or physicists?

[miaoya]

Hello I am new to the Physics Forum and recently I am thinking of choosing an engineering major, but I am having some question about the jobs of engineers. My dream is to use the rules and laws of physics to invent and create things that are useful in life (I know it is not easy to really 'invent' something, so I am just wondering who's work is closer to doing things like that...).

To me this sounds like close to an engineer's work, but from what I have heard of, engineers' job is not very close to 'inventing'. For example engineers would design the circuits in many household electrical appliance. Although the circuit would be different for every product and every company will have different ones, the basic method and rules they use I guess are the same and are already existing. Or I think sometimes engineers would calculate the right amount of an ingredient needed for a specific product in order to suit its specific purpose, or picking the best material to let it work best and stable in reality. If this is true, I think they do create new things, but this is by putting existing things together in new ways but not inventing new technology or things that isn't there before...

So are the following also jobs of engineers? Like using the theory of the motion of electrified conductor in magnetic field to invent motors, or knowing the theory of Resonance and make use of it to invent something new?

thanks for answering!

 

[carlgrace]

Browse around the US Patent Office website. The VAST majority of inventions filed are by engineers. They apply physical principles to develop new technologies.

Sounds like your dream is to become a very skilled engineer.

There are a wide variety of jobs called "engineer" (like anything else). Some focus on advance technologies, some put existing parts together, some focus on reducing cost or improving quality of existing parts, some focus on testing, etc etc etc. If you want to invent circuits, for example, go to grad school in circuits and be outstanding enough you can get a job as a design engineer.

 

[OmCheeto]

Hello I am new to the Physics Forum

Welcome!

and recently I am thinking of choosing an engineering major

good for you!

, but I am having some question about the jobs of engineers.

Oh Christ! I'm in the "Academic Guidance" forum again. Please ignore everything that I say.

My dream is to use the rules and laws of physics to invent and create things that are useful in life (I know it is not easy to really 'invent' something, so I am just wondering who's work is closer to doing things like that...).

This is everyone's dream. A patented, useful invention will make you lots of money.^*

To me this sounds like close to an engineer's work, but from what I have heard of, engineers' job is not very close to 'inventing'. For example engineers would design the circuits in many household electrical appliance. Although the circuit would be different for every product and every company will have different ones, the basic method and rules they use I guess are the same and are already existing. Or I think sometimes engineers would calculate the right amount of an ingredient needed for a specific product in order to suit its specific purpose, or picking the best material to let it work best and stable in reality. If this is true, I think they do create new things, but this is by putting existing things together in new ways but not inventing new technology or things that isn't there before...

So are the following also jobs of engineers? Like using the theory of the motion of electrified conductor in magnetic field to invent motors, or knowing the theory of Resonance and make use of it to invent something new?

thanks for answering!

Your thread title doesn't appear to match what you are asking, but I'll attempt an answer.
I use the word "attempt", as I am neither an engineer, nor a physicist, but a mere technician. Some might argue that this is just silly semantics, so I'll start off with wiki's definitions of the three fields:

A physicist is a scientist who does research in physics. Physicists study a wide range of physical phenomena in many branches of physics spanning all length scales: from sub-atomic particles of which all ordinary matter is made (particle physics) to the behavior of the material Universe as a whole (cosmology).

An engineer is a professional practitioner of engineering, concerned with applying scientific knowledge, mathematics, and ingenuity to develop solutions for technical problems. Engineers design materials, structures, and systems while considering the limitations imposed by practicality, regulation, safety, and cost. The word engineer is derived from the Latin roots ingeniare ("to contrive, devise") and ingenium ("cleverness").

Engineers are grounded in applied sciences, and their work in research and development is distinct from the basic research focus of scientists. The work of engineers forms the link between scientific discoveries and their subsequent applications to human needs and quality of life. In short, engineers are versatile minds who create link between science, technology, and society.

Not to be confused with technician. :grumpy:

A technician is a worker in a field of technology who is proficient in the relevant skills and techniques, with a relatively practical understanding of the theoretical principles. Experienced technicians in a specific tool domain typically have intermediate understanding of theory and expert proficiency in technique. As such, technicians are generally much better versed in technique compared to average layman and even general professionals in that field of technology. For example, although audio technicians are not as learned in acoustics as acoustical engineers, they are more proficient in operating sound equipment, and they will likely know more about acoustics than other studio personnel such as performers.

Technicians may be classified as either highly skilled workers or at times semi-skilled workers, and may be part of a larger (production) process. They may be found working in a variety of fields, and they usually have a job title with the designation 'technician' following the particular category of work. Thus a 'stage technician' is a worker who provides technical support for putting on a play, while a 'medical technician' is an employee who provides technical support in the medical industry or to the medical profession. An engineering technician in the UK is a highly skilled, highly educated occupation requiring 5-8 years post high school training in a formal apprenticeship and college of further education.

Given these three definitions, I will answer your "Thread title question" by saying the physicists don't invent anything. They are actually more like technicians, with fancier torque wrenches. They twist their particle accelerators to find out how and when a particle will break. They then write their discoveries down, and publish them, in a peer reviewed journal, of course. Technicians on the other hand, seldom write anything down, but complain about the fact that the engineers designed something wrong, and have to fix something after it has broken. So in this instance, the physicist discovered the properties of matter, the engineer designed something based on those properties, and the technician built the machine, based on the engineers drawings.

"Inventing" seems to be the other main topic of your questions.

Anyone can invent something.

But what the hell is "Invention"?

An invention is a unique or novel device, method, composition or process. It may be an improvement upon a machine or product, or a new process for creating an object or a result. An invention that achieves a completely unique function or result may be a radical breakthrough. Such works are novel and not obvious to others skilled in the same field.

hmmmm... That's actually a good wiki article. You should read that, in it's entirety.

In conclusion, the thing all three of these types of people have in common is knowledge. So whatever happens, stay in school. (and floss, of course)

I would tell you about the solar powered volleyball sand court watering system I invented a few years back, and how someone with way more money than I will ever see, built the same system, for 10 times the money, only to have it not work at all, but that would be depressing. With a good working knowledge of all branches of physics, you can do anything.

Though, you do need necessity. Necessity is the mother of invention.

What kind of problem are you trying to solve? Besides whether to be an engineer or physicist, of course.

-------------------------------
* I have come to find out, that everything in the universe is based either on economics or accounting. Strangest revelation I ever had in my whole life. Check out Drakkith's signature if you don't believe me.

 

[HallsofIvy]

I remember reading a reference to "Albert Einstein, the famous inventor". My reaction was "What?"

 

[carlgrace]

The irony is physicists often confuse engineers with technicians. ;)

 

[thegreenlaser]

Become an engineer if you want to become an inventor. An engineer's job might be to apply current solutions to new problems (which it sounds like you don't want to do), or it might be to come up with new solution methods altogether and then build them to see if they work (i.e. inventing). It sounds to me like what you want to get into is the "research and development" side of engineering. A lot of companies will have a research and development department whose job is basically to either solve problems that have never been solved, or try to come up with better solutions for problems where the current solution just isn't cutting it anymore.

Of course, that's not to say you can only be an inventor if you go into the R&D side of engineering, but it's a good place to go if you want to invent things.

 

[OmCheeto]

I remember reading a reference to "Albert Einstein, the famous inventor". My reaction was "What?"

His name was on a patent for a refrigerator as I recall. Though from what I remember, Szilard invented it, and Einstein's name was piggy-backed.

Though, as I recall, the design was simply an improvement, over someone else's.

hmmm... Isn't there a saying about "standing on the shoulder of giants" somewhere?

But that is funny to think about.

Einstein's greatest invention, was a refrigerator.

 

[Lavabug]

The electromagnet, the transistor and the laser were all "inventions" made by physicists. I use quotes because I doubt they themselves had set making an invention as their goal at the time, rather they ended up being spinoffs or neat byproducts of some fundamental research they were doing. But I don't know the historical details so I may be wrong.

 

[Vanadium 50]

Einstein held a good number of patents - perhaps a dozen. But it's not so clear to me that a century-old example is particularly helpful. It's also probably not a very accurate view to look at Nobel-caliber inventions like the laser, the IC, or the CCD. Most inventions are not in that category - most are improvements to existing technologies and not brand new technologies.

 

[plife]

In industry, the engineers and technicians work for years to get the brilliant ideas (that the physicists may have come up with) to work in the real world...then the names of the vice president, president, maybe some patent people, and a few other people in the company go on the patent. BTW, the income generated and the patent license all go directly to the company you work for... Inventing in the 21st Century is a "corporate thing." Just look at Apple, GM, Intel, etc. Hundreds of people "invented" the iPod - but you will never know their names.

My grandfather was an inventor - but I don't think that is actually a job title anymore. Now they are either technical employees, or entrepreneurs. But, being a successful entrepreneur requires more business skill than engineering skill, IMHO.

 

[Integral]

All it takes to be an inventor is a problem and a good idea. Anyone can do it.

One of the engineers where I used to work, had over 30 patents hanging on the wall of his cubical, all were in his name. Though I believe that the company owned a piece of them.

 

[OmCheeto]

In industry, the engineers and technicians work for years to get the brilliant ideas (that the physicists may have come up with) to work in the real world...then the names of the vice president, president, maybe some patent people, and a few other people in the company go on the patent. BTW, the income generated and the patent license all go directly to the company you work for... Inventing in the 21st Century is a "corporate thing." Just look at Apple, GM, Intel, etc. Hundreds of people "invented" the iPod - but you will never know their names.

My grandfather was an inventor - but I don't think that is actually a job title anymore.

Inventor was once a job title?

Now they are either technical employees, or entrepreneurs. But, being a successful entrepreneur requires more business skill than engineering skill, IMHO.

A short while after I came up with my trillion dollar idea, there was a post at work about a tech that invented something. I emailed him and asked him about the details on his patent process. He said that because his idea was developed at work, our employer was the patent owner. He received a pretty glass etched award, and a picture of him getting a pat on the back in the company newsletter.

I'm glad I decided to retire early...

Also, although I have no need for the services of this institution, young inventors may want to visit: http://www.lemelson.org

 

[OmCheeto]

Jerome "Jerry" Hal Lemelson (July 18, 1923 Staten Island, New York - October 1, 1997) was a prolific American engineer, inventor, and patent holder.

Ok. I'll now give my definitive answer: Engineer

 

[miaoya]

Browse around the US Patent Office website. The VAST majority of inventions filed are by engineers. They apply physical principles to develop new technologies.

Sounds like your dream is to become a very skilled engineer.

There are a wide variety of jobs called "engineer" (like anything else). Some focus on advance technologies, some put existing parts together, some focus on reducing cost or improving quality of existing parts, some focus on testing, etc etc etc. If you want to invent circuits, for example, go to grad school in circuits and be outstanding enough you can get a job as a design engineer.

Thanks for answering my question! The US Patent Office website is a good place to look at! Thanks for letting me know!

 

[OmCheeto]

Thanks for answering my question! The US Patent Office website is a good place to look at! Thanks for letting me know!

Don't forget to check out the Small Business Administration website. They are also a good place to look at.

And good luck Miaoya! God-Speed!

 

[miaoya]

Welcome!

good for you!

Oh Christ! I'm in the "Academic Guidance" forum again. Please ignore everything that I say.

This is everyone's dream. A patented, useful invention will make you lots of money.^*


Your thread title doesn't appear to match what you are asking, but I'll attempt an answer.
I use the word "attempt", as I am neither an engineer, nor a physicist, but a mere technician. Some might argue that this is just silly semantics, so I'll start off with wiki's definitions of the three fields:







Given these three definitions, I will answer your "Thread title question" by saying the physicists don't invent anything. They are actually more like technicians, with fancier torque wrenches. They twist their particle accelerators to find out how and when a particle will break. They then write their discoveries down, and publish them, in a peer reviewed journal, of course. Technicians on the other hand, seldom write anything down, but complain about the fact that the engineers designed something wrong, and have to fix something after it has broken. So in this instance, the physicist discovered the properties of matter, the engineer designed something based on those properties, and the technician built the machine, based on the engineers drawings.

"Inventing" seems to be the other main topic of your questions.

Anyone can invent something.

But what the hell is "Invention"?



hmmmm... That's actually a good wiki article. You should read that, in it's entirety.

In conclusion, the thing all three of these types of people have in common is knowledge. So whatever happens, stay in school. (and floss, of course)

I would tell you about the solar powered volleyball sand court watering system I invented a few years back, and how someone with way more money than I will ever see, built the same system, for 10 times the money, only to have it not work at all, but that would be depressing. With a good working knowledge of all branches of physics, you can do anything.

Though, you do need necessity. Necessity is the mother of invention.

What kind of problem are you trying to solve? Besides whether to be an engineer or physicist, of course.

-------------------------------
* I have come to find out, that everything in the universe is based either on economics or accounting. Strangest revelation I ever had in my whole life. Check out Drakkith's signature if you don't believe me.

Thanks for your detailed reply! :) I do believe this is everyone's dream since it has so many good things associated with it. I changed the content of my post after I wrote the title so I know it is kinda off topic...:P

From what you have said, I know more about these 3 job's difference now! and I think engineer is definitely my best choice of majoring and being in physics major is kinda far from doing things like that. But I am still curious about one thing that is do physics major students have chances to become engineers or do works similar to them? I am asking this because I am now in the science faculty of my university and I don't know if I can successfully transfer to engineering faculty or not...I can easily be in physics major now and try to transfer and it doesn't cost me any extra time, I am not sure do I worth doing it?

 

[miaoya]

Become an engineer if you want to become an inventor. An engineer's job might be to apply current solutions to new problems (which it sounds like you don't want to do), or it might be to come up with new solution methods altogether and then build them to see if they work (i.e. inventing). It sounds to me like what you want to get into is the "research and development" side of engineering. A lot of companies will have a research and development department whose job is basically to either solve problems that have never been solved, or try to come up with better solutions for problems where the current solution just isn't cutting it anymore.

Of course, that's not to say you can only be an inventor if you go into the R&D side of engineering, but it's a good place to go if you want to invent things.

I have heard of the research part in engineering before but I am not sure what they really does, I think now I got a better understanding of their job! :) Thanks for letting me know~

 

[miaoya]

The electromagnet, the transistor and the laser were all "inventions" made by physicists. I use quotes because I doubt they themselves had set making an invention as their goal at the time, rather they ended up being spinoffs or neat byproducts of some fundamental research they were doing. But I don't know the historical details so I may be wrong.

I am having my question in this post because as I recall many "inventions" are made by physicists... But I think you maybe right although I know nothing about them either, because I think sometimes it would be very easy to "invent" something if a brand new theory is discovered.

 

[miaoya]

Einstein held a good number of patents - perhaps a dozen. But it's not so clear to me that a century-old example is particularly helpful. It's also probably not a very accurate view to look at Nobel-caliber inventions like the laser, the IC, or the CCD. Most inventions are not in that category - most are improvements to existing technologies and not brand new technologies.

Yes I agree with you... In my memory many inventions are made by physicist but maybe that's the impression I get from my science courses, the things mentioned in them are usually made from classic theories from decades ago...

 

[miaoya]

In industry, the engineers and technicians work for years to get the brilliant ideas (that the physicists may have come up with) to work in the real world...then the names of the vice president, president, maybe some patent people, and a few other people in the company go on the patent. BTW, the income generated and the patent license all go directly to the company you work for... Inventing in the 21st Century is a "corporate thing." Just look at Apple, GM, Intel, etc. Hundreds of people "invented" the iPod - but you will never know their names.

My grandfather was an inventor - but I don't think that is actually a job title anymore. Now they are either technical employees, or entrepreneurs. But, being a successful entrepreneur requires more business skill than engineering skill, IMHO.

Yes I guess this is how the world works now... Although this is kind of depressing but I guess inventing things itself has a lot of pleasure in it, and people usually won't remember the inventor's name anyway because there is usually so many of them :P