Top 10 Richest Americans: Bill Gates to Michael Dell

[Monique]

1. Bill Gates - 46 miljard dollar
2. Warren Buffet - 36 miljard dollar
3. Paul Allen - 22 miljard dollar
4. Helen Walton - 20,5 miljard dollar
5. S. Robson Walton - 20,5 miljard dollar
6. John Walton - 20,5 miljard dollar
7. Jim Walton - 20,5 miljard dollar
8. Alice Walton - 20,5 miljard dollar
9. Larry Ellison - 18 miljard dollar
10. Michael Dell - 13 miljard dollar

Miljard = Billion

Again, from Forbes. I am not sure where to get the 10 richest of the world..
kinda difficult to find out with all the different currencies and those people might be shy of the law

Bill Gates made 3 Billion dollars in the last year (!)
No. 4-8 are the Walton family = Wal-Mart!
(I'm surprised) together 102.5 Billion dollar..
I feel bad about highlighting such people, but hey! Anyone can read Forbes..

 

[Monique]

I wonder.. what do they eat for diner?

 

[photon]

I wonder.. what do they eat for diner?

people

 

[chroot]

Originally posted by photon
people

LOLOLOLOLOL!

- Warren

 

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Imagine...

Imagine if those rich bastards decided to donate just 5% of their accumulated wealth (which they obtained through the sweat and blood of the common workers) to eliminating Third World Debt? The world would be a better place, I believe. However, they continue to accumulate, profit and supply the demand.
Maybe some time in a far-off future our capitalistic world will recognise such huge excesses in greed for what they truly are - obscene acts of global criminality without borders or morals.
A profitable company is seen as praiseworthy, and is valued by our society. However, when insane men hoard more than whole starving nations – then its time America (and the rest of its cronies, like us Aussies) took a long hard look at the road it walks down. Because we all know where that road ends…

 

[Saint]

Don't be jealous, it is out of hard work and intelligence that they create their wealth !

 

[Adrian Baker]

Originally posted by Saint
Don't be jealous, it is out of hard work and intelligence that they create their wealth !

Too right! Why do people resent others so much? It is totally unnecessary. Are they really 'bastards' just because they have money?. I'm sure that Nommos Prime has far more wealth than 90% of the worlds population - how much of your fortune are you giving away then, or do you only mean those richer than you?

Pah!

 

[Monique]

Well, what percentage of the human population lives in so called 'third world' countries? What is a person to do with 20 billion dollar.. I cannot even image how much it would take to spend that much money, is it possible?

If not, I would say donate all the money that can't be spent before death and invest it in something good.

I am not sure what these people do with their money, so I can't comment really, but they probably have 20 cars in their garage, 6 vacation villas, own an island in the pacific etc. = filthy rich.

I once saw some energy requirements of Americans, OMG! Do you know how wastefull people are with energy over there?? I think my dad still has that lying around.. it had really interesting statistics..

 

[Adrian Baker]

Why use terms such as FILTHY rich? I thought that this was the Physics Forum not the Revolutionary Communist Party one!

Are all rich people to be condemned then? Are the poor all deserving cases? If someone manages to raise themselves up from nothing to become successful should we then despise them?

Let's cut out the Rich = Bad generalisations please!

 

[Zantra]

Ya we're pretty much resource hogs. But the majority of americans are not filthy rich. In fact, most are below the median. I think that's a popular misconception.

 

[selfAdjoint]

Most of us are below the median? Good trick.

 

[Adrian Baker]

Well, about half of all people are below average intelligence you know ...

 

[Monique]

Half can be below the median or the average..

Adrian, you sound offended, are you rich? As I said, not all rich people are condemed. But they earn their money somewhere right? They would be very VERY selfish to keep it all to themselves. It would be VERY selfish too to spend it all on luxery items, enhancing the lives of people who don't really need enhancement. Rather spend the money in a way which will actually make this world a better place to live in.

No, that doesn't mean spend it on me, but people in wellfare societies seem to live in this ignorant bliss that everything is perfect.

And yes, Zantra, why do you think most of the Americans are below median income? Maybe because there are so many incredibly wealthy people?? As I said earlier in another thread, the spread in wages in The Netherlands is quite small, in the US it is really large.

 

[Monique]

Just what makes someone deserve to earn billions of dollars, and what makes someone deserve to die from starvation. Noone deserves it, don't take it for granted.

 

[Zantra]

Ok ok, you got me. I meant to say that the average salary in america is about 40k, and only 30 percent earn more than that. onlt 5 percent earn over 50k/year, and only 1 percent over 100k/year.

 

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Praiseworthy?

I am not jealous of the filthy rich. If anything, I pity them. Fuelling economies in a poker game where those with the most cannot possibly lose.
What do I do to help the world with my slave-wage? Child sponsorship, I am politically active (member of the Nuclear Disarmament Party), and I use (what little) money is left after my wage to self-publish analysis and books on subjects.
I am probably “richer” than 90% off the world’s population. However, I still live just above the official government “poverty-line”. The reason I am richer than 90% of the population in the world is solely because of these filthy rich people. When 95% of the world’s economy is controlled and owned by a handful of transnational corporations, then it doesn’t take a genius to work out that there is only 5% of wealth left for the whole rest of the world to have access to it.
When people say these guys amassed their fortunes through hard work and such, I am amazed. What do you call a common worker’s working day? Not hard work?
That people believe these guys “deserve” to hoard such excesses, probably makes invasions of Iraq much easier to enact through deceit.
And “What can be done with 20 billion dollars, what will it do?”
I saw on the news that it costs 87 billion dollars to reconstruct Iraq. Well – that’s a start…

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by Nommos Prime (Dogon)
When 95% of the world’s economy is controlled and owned by a handful of transnational corporations, then it doesn’t take a genius to work out that there is only 5% of wealth left for the whole rest of the world to have access to it.
When people say these guys amassed their fortunes through hard work and such, I am amazed. What do you call a common worker’s working day? Not hard work?

I agree.

 

[Adrian Baker]

Originally posted by Monique
I agree.

Based on what? The figures quoted above are incorrect for a start. Even if a 'handful' of companies owned and controlled 95% of the economy (untrue) that doesn't mean that NON-owners don't get access to wealth. Have you not heard of salaries to workers in those companies?

Sharing wealth as in communism was a massive failure impoverishing millions. What system has worked better than capitalism?
I could continue to write far more, but don't have the time...or inclination.

No I am not rich Monique - I am a school teacher.

 

[RageSk8]

Sharing wealth as in communism was a massive failure impoverishing millions. What system has worked better than capitalism?

Sharing wealth is also at the heart of every first-world capitalist country (though, due to the Republicans in power, this is becoming less and less so). Why do you see things in such a black and white manner? From what I can tell no one here has proposed communism, nor can communism be derived from the view that the super rich do not deserve all of their wealth. Saint said that billionaires deserve their wealth because it was a product of hard work and intelligence. Even ignoring the obvious exceptions to this rule do to inheritance this view is more than wanting. As Nommos noted, many people whose wealth is be far surpassed (far doesn't even capture the difference) by the super rich have a good work ethic and intelligence. There is no mapping of degree of merit to degree of wealth! The wealth of the super rich is made possible by the hard work of the middle and lower classes. In closing I am going to put forth my own view, a view that I think many people here share.

Disparity in wealth is perfectly fine. The notion that people are motivated to work harder and be more creative is spurred by the desire to amass more wealth is true. What is not ok is allowing people to have exorbitant amounts of wealth at the expense of education, health care, and most of all hope for the future for the poor. In other words, just because people's place in life is determined by what choices they have does not mean that we should not try to give them better choices. Redistribution of wealth does not imply making everyone equal, it is simply a means towards social justice.

 

[Adrian Baker]

Originally posted by RageSk8


Disparity in wealth is perfectly fine. The notion that people are motivated to work harder and be more creative is spurred by the desire to amass more wealth is true. What is not ok is allowing people to have exorbitant amounts of wealth at the expense of education, health care, and most of all hope for the future for the poor. In other words, just because people's place in life is determined by what choices they have does not mean that we should not try to give them better choices. Redistribution of wealth does not imply making everyone equal, it is simply a means towards social justice.

I totally agree, but it is the degree to which redistrubution happens that taxes (no pun intended) the politicians and populations of most decently run countries. We can all disagree about exactly how much redistribution takes place (that's politics) but calling the Rich Filthy, or impling that they are somehow corrupting society is just unnecessary and misguided.
Shall we call all the poor people, dirty snivelling wasters, who are too feckless to care for themselves? No - because it is totally unnecessary, narrow minded, bigoted rubbish!

 

[dduardo]

You have to understand that billionaires don't really have all this money. Most of it is trapped in investments such as stocks. If you look at Bill Gate's fortune, most of his money is derived from owning 1,163,708,636 shares of Microsoft's stock. These stocks alone are worth $30,337,884,141 or about $30.3 Billion. Even if he could take out all his money from the stocks, that would have serious economic consequences on Mircosoft.

I really think Bill Gates has been a very generous giver with the Milinda-Gates Foundation. Recently he donated hundreds of millions of dollars to Africa for vacinations.

<cynical>
For those who think rich people should give more to 3rd world countries, just be glad that they donated at all. If it wasn't for their generosity, many more people would be dead in those countries. Just imagine how much more room there would be in a less overpopulated world . The percentage in the world making over 40k would dramatically increase and less resources will be used up.
</cynical>

 

[Monique]

I said filthy rich by the lack of a better word, let's call it rich beyond any rational concept in the future.

Dduardo: [?]

Are you serious! Who are the big spenders with the resources, the somalian living on dried up mudd as a diet or the millionair who has to heat its 60 acre (?) mansion? Gee.

 

[Robert Zaleski]

I believe the wealthiest 2 or 3 percent of Americans pay 60 percent of all taxes in the United States. Most of these people are small business owners that provide most of the jobs in this country.

 

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Issues About Taxation (In Australia)

I do not know about the US Tax System but I do know a lot about the Australian Tax system.
Last year I paid some $12000 Australian in tax. A certain man named Kerry Packer (a media mogul like Rupert Murdoch) paid LESS TAX THAN ME! He earnt over 5 billion dollars PROFIT (conservative estimate)!
The super-rich DO NOT contribute any measure of worth in tax dollars to the Australian economy. Nothing. Zip. Zilch.
Now, how do they avoid paying tax? Quite easily. First, privatise all public industries, manipulate taxation laws through political donations to the parties in power, cyphen off the wealth to an off-shore place (the Canary Islands used to be pretty popular), then launder the money by creating false subsidaries. Then, if you still have any assessable tax-income, you can invest in films, disguise tax-breaks by masquerading them as Foreign Aid etc.
Now, you can take things further by playing the stock exchange. Create a non-existent company, get illegal credit from the banks, get the government to act as surety for your loan (so it doesn't matter if you go bankrupt). Then, when poor Mr & Mrs Joe Blow invest in your "phantom" company, announce a company-merge (making sure to make inside tip-offs to the BIG investors), that way ONLY the little guy loses. Then buy yhe stock at a pittance of the price, put the company in the hands of the regulators, become a predator and strip all assests in the form of the illegal credit. And Hocus-Pocus, the jokers make billions out of NOTHING!

 

[Nommos Prime (Dogon)]

Foreign Aid & The IMF

Oh yeh, Foreign Aid (9 times out of 10) is used to blackmail the poorer nations into letting richer nations have access to their mineral resources, and so they can gain access to their markets. It can also be used to "buy" votes in the UN (even though the US doesn't need them, because it has power of VETO). Foreign Aid is also useful when you want to install a "puppet dictator".
Foreign Aid and the IMF are illusions. We do not help poorer nations (which usually were wrecked by us in the first place) with these "hand-outs", or as I like to call it, "pimp money". The IMF keeps international interest rates at just the right level so that those poorer nations can NEVER pay off their IMF debt. This is reality. Go ask a Mexican, ask a Panamanian, Bolivian etc.
The only people blind to this reality are us Westerners.

 

[Adrian Baker]

Your problem seems to be with politicians, not Rich people. Perhaps you should aim your anger at them, not at the Rich? If rich Australians don't pay Tax, then your Government is at fault. They after all set up the tax system, and should be enforcing it.


Your comments on Foreign Aid do have some truth about them, but why should we keep suppling aid to nations Like N. Korea and Zimbabwe when it just helps maintain a corrupt government? Aid rarely gets to the people that it is supposed to help. This is a real problem. Disliking the world's rich people won't solve it.

 

[Raven]

Nothing against Rich People

I have nothing against Rich People. In fact I wish more people were financially rich. By "Financially Rich" I mean living well and able to meet their means and above it. However, living in EXTREME excess of one's means...

I believe there are those who horde and I tend to think of these people to live overly extravagant lives wasting (yes "wasting" in my opinion) money on extravagant comodotities such as owning 5 yachts when only one is needed, owning several mansions when truly one is enough, and in general spending extravagant amounts of money on things they don't really need and later find in storage not even remembering how it got there or how it came to their possession. Sure there's an argument that by spending large sums they are helping the economy, etc., but truly, some of those expenditures would be far more useful to a society in other ways. Let's take charities for instance.

Yes, I know. The rich do give to charities and I think that's great. But in my opinion a lot of the extremely wealthy (those who horde) do not give enough. It's not an evil or a bad thing that greater donations aren't given it's just that humans tend to hold on to large sums. It's difficult to part with money for nothing in return.

For example $400 or $500 donated to some charity a year would most likely be considered a small sum by average individuals. People or even whole families who earn $40,000 to $50,000 a year may be willing to part with such a sum quite easily -- no big deal. After all it is only 1% of their annual income. On the other hand, ask a Billionaire to part with 1% of his annual income (10 million dollars for each billion their worth) and I know most will find it difficult to do. For instance let's say an individual is worth approximately 30 Billion dollars, then the equivalent of 1% of his/her worth would be 300 million dollars. Will he/she donate that much a year? Or will they be more likely to donate less and horde the rest.

I mean do they really need all that money? What the hell for? There are people in need who could use it.

Let's not forget GREED, after all, is considered to be one of the 7 deadliest sins. Why do you suppose that is?

 

[Shadow]

Like Monique stated these people weren't just handed their money...well waltons perhaps but their father worked extremely hard and they are leading the company now so it isn't exactly free. They are brilliant people and although donating (as said before) 5% of what they make would be extrememly nice, they have a right to decide what they do.

as for the what do they eat?

they 1,000 dollar bills on golden plates. They use 100's for toilet paper.

 

[Zantra]

If they were given the money, and the waste it, I agree that it's a waste. But if someone earns their own money, works hard for it, and suceeds, then who are we to tell them how they should spend it? What if lower class people were able to decide how the middle class should spend their money? Should they have the right to tell you that you don't deserve to own a car because it hurts the environment and taking public transportation is more cost effective? I think no one would agree to that. It's the same way with wealthy people. They made it, they decide how to spend it. We may see it as wasteful, but that's not for us to decide.

 

[Peter Pan]

Any one here, except government workers, should be kissing every rich person's filthy butt for providing them with a means of income.

enough said

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by Peter Pan
Any one here, except government workers, should be kissing every rich person's filthy butt for providing them with a means of income.

enough said

That goes the other way around too, ever heard of exploitation?? Why do you think rich people get rich? They produce their stuff in poor countries against rediculously low wages. They say that they are providing those people with work, but in fact those people and resources are being exploited.

 

[Njorl]

Originally posted by Peter Pan
Any one here, except government workers, should be kissing every rich person's filthy butt for providing them with a means of income.

enough said

There are two types of entrepreneurs.

One sees a problem in the marketplace and arranges for a solution. He profits from increased productivity he siphons from the overall more productive situation. Had he not acted, the market would be worse off.

The other sees an improved situation growing in the marketplace and appropriates it. He either suppresses it to keep his existing investments profitable, or siphons off profit from the new venture, making it less productive than it was. Either way, his actions make the market worse off.

The vast majority of the extremely wealthy fall into the second category. Small business owners, people who really create jobs and wealth fall into the first category.

You should read some Thorstein Veblen.

Njorl

 

[Peter Pan]

That goes the other way around too, ever heard of exploitation?? Why do you think rich people get rich? They produce their stuff in poor countries against rediculously low wages. They say that they are providing those people with work, but in fact those people and resources are being exploited.

It does not go the other way around. A person of average intellegance, excluding celeberty, will not become rich. They depend on people of intellegence and foresight to provide them with jobs. I argue that a rich person will servive without out the masses. I also believe that the opposite of that statement is false.

People in poor countries are happy to have those jobs. Without the "big and mean" companys "exploiting" the poor worker, those poor workers wouldn't have jobs. If all those workers are being exploited, let them go work somewhere else. Or even better, let them start their own business so we can be angry with them>

 

[Monique]

Originally posted by Peter Pan
People in poor countries are happy to have those jobs. Without the "big and mean" companys "exploiting" the poor worker, those poor workers wouldn't have jobs. If all those workers are being exploited, let them go work somewhere else. Or even better, let them start their own business so we can be angry with them>

You went and asked them? I recall some issues that the US had with an African country and labor exploitation.. I can't remember the details.. :S

I have very clearly seen exploitation of large firms with immigrant employees, working from 6 to 6, monday to monday, without the pay of overtime. If the worker doesn't agree, he will get fired and sent out of the country. That is the power that causes exploitation.

But remember, I am not against rich people in general.