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100 solar mass BH in Orion?

  1. Nov 14, 2012 #1

    PAllen

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    This paper proposes a 100 solar mass black hole in nearby Orion Nebula:

    http://arxiv.org/abs/1209.2114

    Exciting if true. I have no particular comments, just thought it should be noted here.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 14, 2012 #2
    What is the largest we've found so far?
     
  4. Nov 14, 2012 #3
    Wouldn't that be the other way around? We've found lots of huge ones, I'm curious what the smallest we've found is.
     
  5. Nov 14, 2012 #4

    PAllen

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    Previously, what were hypothesized were huge, galactic center BH (many thousands to billions of solar masses), and stellar black holes (say 3 to 30 solar masses). This represents a new and unexpected size, as well as being close (relatively). [I mistakenly assumed this back ground would be well known here.]
     
  6. Nov 14, 2012 #5
    Well, I did actually know about the large ones, and I remember some buzz about midrange holes being proposed for certain unusual xray sources, but yeah the main thing that is interesting here is how close it is, right around the corner, galactically speaking.
     
  7. Nov 14, 2012 #6

    PAllen

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    x-ray sources are presumed stellar mass BH, e.g. from remnant of supernova. This one, bigger than stellar, not associated with galactic nucleus, is wholly unexpected, so far as I know.
     
  8. Nov 14, 2012 #7
    I believe that intermediate size black holes are also interesting because we don't have a good idea as to how they are formed
     
  9. Nov 14, 2012 #8
    As I can remember, we have only one example of an intermediate one. Low mass and smbh-s are quite abundant.
     
  10. Nov 15, 2012 #9
  11. Nov 15, 2012 #10

    PAllen

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  12. Nov 15, 2012 #11

    Chronos

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    Actually, small black holes [< 5 solar mass] are quite scarce [as in almost nonexistent]. I find the apparent mass gap between the largest neutron stars and smallest black holes to be very curious.
     
  13. Nov 15, 2012 #12
    would that be because it's difficult to detect stellar mass black holes, and so we don't have a lot of examples of them?
     
  14. Nov 15, 2012 #13

    Chronos

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    It appears possible solar mass black holes do not directly result from the collapse of massive stars. We have already seen examples of 20+ solar mass stars collapsing to form neutron stars. It may be they require more exotic [and rare] events like neutron star mergers.
     
  15. Nov 15, 2012 #14
    oh wow really? I thought it was well accepted that massive stars above around 8 solar masses end up going supernova and forming black holes.
     
  16. Nov 15, 2012 #15

    D H

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    Exactly. There are only 20 to 30 or so objects that are deemed to be strong candidates for stellar mass black holes. It's a small list.
     
  17. Nov 15, 2012 #16

    D H

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    It is well accepted that stars above about [strike]8[/strike] 10 or so solar masses end up going supernova. Stars between 0.5 solar masses and 10 solar masses end up as white dwarfs. It's only the massive stars that die a spectacular death. The result of that death can be a neutron star plus a bunch of ejecta, a black hole plus a bunch of ejecta, just a bunch of ejecta, or just a black hole and hardly any ejecta. Stars between 10 to 25 solar masses do go supernova, but the supernova ends up ejecting almost everything. The small core that is left is too small to undergo a complete gravitational collapse. It instead becomes a neutron star.
     
  18. Nov 15, 2012 #17
    The smallest known is 4 solar masses. This is puzzling, because the largest known neutron star is 1.97 solar masses. Why the gap? No one knows.
     
  19. Nov 17, 2012 #18
    Yeah, the smallest I had heard of was up in the 20~30 solar mass range, didn't know there were any that small yet.

    As for the gap, that is indeed a puzzler, wonder if there are processes which favor neutron star formation with mass ejection through jets up to the lower bh mass range?
     
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