14 Points of Fascism

Which of 14 points of Fascism has the US fulfilled?

  1. NONE!

    5 vote(s)
    27.8%
  2. I don't know.

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  3. 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. 1, 2, 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 12

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  5. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  6. 3, 4, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 12, 13

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  7. one third of all 14 points

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  8. one half of all 14 points

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  9. three quarters of all 14 points

    3 vote(s)
    16.7%
  10. all 14 points

    7 vote(s)
    38.9%
  1. Dr. Lawrence Britt has examined the fascist regimes of Hitler (Germany), Mussolini (Italy), Franco (Spain), Suharto (Indonesia) and several Latin American regimes. Britt found 14 defining characteristics common to each:

    1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism -
    Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays. TOP

    2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights -
    Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc. TOP

    3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause -
    The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc. TOP

    4. Supremacy of the Military -
    Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized. TOP

    5. Rampant Sexism -
    The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Divorce, abortion and homo-sexuality are suppressed and the state is represented as the ultimate guardian of the family institution. TOP

    6. Controlled Mass Media -
    Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common. TOP

    7. Obsession with National Security -
    Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses. TOP

    8. Religion and Government are Intertwined -
    Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions. TOP

    9. Corporate Power is Protected -
    The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite. TOP

    10. Labor Power is Suppressed -
    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed. TOP

    11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts -
    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts and letters is openly attacked. TOP

    12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment -
    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

    13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption -
    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders. TOP

    14. Fraudulent Elections -
    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.

    http://www.couplescompany.com/Features/Politics/Structure3.htm
    _______________________________________

    Which points has the US fulfilled as of today?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Did the distinguished Dr. Britt examine socialist regimes? Don't you see the similarities?
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2004
  4. Your poll doesn't have the right choices for me to reply. But, anyway...what did you pick Schwarz
     
  5. Janitor

    Janitor 1,189
    Science Advisor

    If your number 6 item is supposed to imply that the Bush administration is in control of the media, um, I vote that the U.S. is at the opposite extreme from facism. Anybody here ever read the New York Times or watch CNN? :wink:
     
  6. marcus

    marcus 24,538
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member
    2014 Award

    I think of US not as fascist but as a disabled republic in which
    the institutions of constitutional democracy have been
    taken over by corporate interest through a neocon coup and the unregulated purchase of a large chunk of the media.

    corruption of elected representatives by the rich, tax loopholes, unreformed campaign funding, paid TV commercials, gerrymandering, the herding of the populace by manipulated fear, an ideological crusade to privatize and deregulate wherever it could make a buck for a crony----all these are parts of the problem too.

    and a brain-dead self-destructive form of imperialism too

    but it isnt fascism exactly

    it just has things in common with fascist states of the past

    I went thru your list and found half a dozen points of similarity
    where maybe it hasnt gone all the way but enough has happened to at least raise a blister

    3. Use of enemies (Axis of Evil) as unifying cause
    4. Overfunding military (imperial power is a waste of time and money)
    7. Obsession with Security -Fear is used as a motivational tool
    8. Religious rhetoric--fundamentalist protestant "christian" mostly
    9. Corporate Power is Protected -
    The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

    14. Fraudulent Elections

    9 implies 6 (which I left out) because the corporate network owns the media, police power is not needed to control the press because with some exceptions the main part of it voluntarily toes the line. free and responsible journalism has declined. owners suppress stories. talkshows form opinion

    I didnt mention 10, the suppression or neutralization of Labor, because globalization---the sending of jobs to Mexico and Asia, takes care of that. Industrial labor is in shock so it does not have to be suppressed by police power.
     
  7. Janitor

    Janitor 1,189
    Science Advisor

    Marcus, did election fraud at the national level in the U.S. start with Illinois and Texas in 1960, or were there earlier incidents as well?
     
  8. I think the US suffers to some degree from all 14 characteristics of a fascist nation, but I still wouldn't call it a fascist nation. That's because it also enjoys to some degree all the characteristics of a progressive, democratic nation.
     
  9. schwarzchildradius,

    How recent is Dr. L. Britt's study? I. e., might it be in reaction to or influenced by events of the current administration?
     
  10. An oligarchy and/or plutocracy could also fit into some of these points as well (particularly 6, 9, 13, 14)
     
    Last edited: May 31, 2004
  11. Njorl

    Njorl 875
    Science Advisor

    1. I rarely see flags around, and I work on a military base.

    2. While some people in power would like to ignore human rights,they are going to lose power because of it. They have tried to hide their abuses, because they are unacceptable.

    3. This may have been attempted, but we are certainly not unified.

    4. As a percentage of GNP, the US does not spend that much on the military. In absolute dollars it spends a huge amount, but I believe the percentage figure is more applicable.

    5. The National security advisor, two supreme court justices and a few senators are female. I certainly believe there is sexism, but not like you'd expect in a fascist state. The #2 man in Nazi Germany was an open homosexual. I don't think homosexuality is relevant.

    6. Until recently,the media had been far to lenient to the administration, but hardly controlled.

    7. Even on September 11th, I have seen no one, not one single person, expressing any fear based on the administration's propaganda.

    8. The most common religion in the US is Catholicism. This is way off.

    9. This might be true in the US, but it is not true of Facism. Who was this guy?

    10. The decline of Labor's power is due to the alteration of the nature of the workforce.

    11. While I find my country to be depressingly anti-intellectual, what country isn't? Maybe there are one or two , maybe 5, but there certainly are not 10. I don't see the level of persecution necessary to indicate facism. Yes, Rush Limbaufgh is popular, but nobody is pulling a "Salmon Rushdie".

    12. Not even close.

    13. This is true of all governments. It is extreme in fascist states. I don't think we've reached that extreme.

    14. While the wills of the people of the US, and the people of Florida were not reflected by the last presidential election, that was due primarily to a flawed ballot design. The people in power now had nothing to do with that design.

    0 of 14. While I think W woulfd like to be a fascist dictator, he isn't eve close.

    Njorl
     
  12. Njorl

    Njorl 875
    Science Advisor


    You mean like Norway? I don't think that is describing Norway.

    Njorl
     
  13. Njorl

    Njorl 875
    Science Advisor

    Why would you pick two of the most pro-bush news organizations to make this point? The Times has been running apologies for essentially being the Bush administration's steno pad for the last 4 years.

    Njorl
     
  14. Here's what appears to be the original article:
    Original article .PDF format
    So it was written in spring 2003 for an article in "Free Inquiry" magazine. True it's hard to quantify types of government in large countries absolutely because they tend to be large and diverse, and wind up combining traditional characteristics of other types of governments (I'll call it the "borg" theory).
    I think Marcus struck it pretty hard there; the Bush government's philosophy comes right out of the revolving-door school of crooked politics- privatize all the profits, socialize all the cost. The scary part is point #14, which suggests that America might not be able to get out of this without a serious struggle.
    The difference between today's vote fraud and the frauds that have happened in the past is scale- instead of a handfull of local ballots being stuffed giving one party or the other a nominal advantage, electronic ballots could be programmed to steal literally millions of peoples' votes, and nobody would be able to prove or disprove it.
    My opinion is that the Bush government has fullfilled all 14 points that were unfilled to begin with to some extent.
    1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism: America has always been nationalistic to some extent, but the appropriate nationalism after 9/11 was used to invade Iraq.
    2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights: Obviously the Geneva convention was blatantly violated at Abu Graib and other prisons in Iraq, and the memo stating that the Geneva conventions should not apply was signed by Rumsfeld.
    3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause: "You're either with us, or you are with the terrorists." and other such public rhetoric; equating Saddam and his government with the Taliban & al Qaeda; Identifying Iran, Iraq, and North Korea as having been co-ordinating al Qaeda attacks on 9/11.
    4. Supremacy of the Military: So far just the war in Iraq has cost 114.7 Billion, (yet soldiers get wall-mart wages?). Everywhere in the media, the military is celebrated.
    5. Rampant Sexism: the Bush government has proclaimed that they are enemies of the reproductive freedom of women. Also, the Bush government has taken women's health and welfare information off of government web-sites. i confronted Katherine Harris about this, but she had no comment.
    6. Controlled Mass Media: It's difficult to quantify the control the Bush government exerts over the media, but they certainly can control news access to the President and reward or punish news organizations as they see fit (the banning of Helen Thomas, the Letterman flap, news blackouts of protests). There's a lot of influence on "free speech" when a handfull of companies own the entire media - ties into point # 9 as Marcus said.
    7. Obsession with National Security: This one's obvious- terror warnings with the Attorney General stating that a terror attack will help elect Kerry ? Color coded "threat" levels have no meaning for the public except fear.
    8. Religion and government intertwined: The FBCI (faith based community initiative) which funnels tax dollars into the bank account of Televangelist/con-man Pat Robertson.
    9. Corporate Power is Protected: environmental protections in the dumpster, crooks like Ken Lay protected while Democrat Martha Stewart is destroyed, no-bid contracts designed with help from Cheney (google "cheney email"). Looks like corporate power is protected.
    10. Labor Power is Suppressed: Again, as Marcus has stated, this was more or less a done deal before the Bush government, but obviously Bush hasn't been a friend of labor, with official policy of getting rid of your job.
    11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts: To appease the radical right, indecency fines have increased tenfold. They use this to censor shock-jock Stern. Bush is reportedly not a "fancy pants intellectual {like Bob Woodward}"
    12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment: USA Patriot act (named after the "Patriot" organization of which Tim McVeigh was a member) was ruled unconstitutional by a federal judge. It's a psychological characterization to name it an "obsession," but it is true that police have vastly enhanced powers to search & seize your property without you even knowing about it.
    13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption: Seems pretty obvious that there's a network of associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. Most of the appointments in the Bush government are former lobbyists for the industries that their part of the government is designed to protect people from.
    14. Fraudulent Elections: This one is the most disturbing. The "felons" who were turned away in Florida by the thousands hadn't committed any felonies. 58% of them were blacks. In principle it's kind of cute on a small scale, but with millions of votes and the future of the nation at stake, it's no longer funny.
     
    Last edited: Jun 1, 2004
  15. No, I was thinking of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics.
     
  16. Njorl

    Njorl 875
    Science Advisor

    That would be a communist state (as defined by Lenin, not Marx), not a socialist state.

    Njorl
     
  17. Oh, it's so hard keeping up with this word game. Let's see, the word socialist found in the title Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, actually means communist. What about the word progressive, that I see the socialist using now, is that a new more sanitized version of the word communist too?
     
  18. Njorl

    Njorl 875
    Science Advisor

    Were you as easily convinced that the USSR was a union of republics as you were that they were socialist? :wink:

    Njorl
     
  19. Bystander

    Bystander 3,441
    Science Advisor
    Homework Helper
    Gold Member

    I ain't Marcus, but for the record, Washington's 2nd term is the earliest case for which arguments have been presented alleging fraud.
     
  20. selfAdjoint

    selfAdjoint 8,147
    Staff Emeritus
    Gold Member


    A communist state has never existed, any more than a utopia of any other kind has. Communism is thought by marxists to be the benign end state after the contradictions of capitalism have been transcended. Communist means a follower of Marx, at some level (there are skillions of subtribes). Progressive means at least against the worst excesses of capitalism, without going overboard on marxism. Note that Teddy Roosevelt described himself as a progressive.

    The general word for states that are run by partisans of Marx is socialist. The older term for people who supported some but not all of the marxist program was democratic socialist. True marxists are against "bourgeois" law and order and elections and so forth, calling them just devices for the ruling class to oppress the masses, but democratic socialists accept these traditions.

    Another way of classifying the far left is by what International they support.

    2d International, socialists and democratic socialists
    3d International, Stalinists, Communist paries around the world.
    4th International, Trotskyist.
     
  21. Don't forget the split between communists and anarchists after the 1st international! :wink:
     
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