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News 14th Amendment Hubbub

  1. Aug 5, 2010 #1
    Congressmen Lindsey Graham is trying to modify the 14th Amendment so as to not include children born of illegal parents in this country. Sounds like a good, reasonable idea to me. We don't reward illegal behavior.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Aug 5, 2010 #2

    cristo

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    But the child hasn't done anything illegal. Why should it be punished?
     
  4. Aug 5, 2010 #3
    Why should it get benefits due to the illegality of its parents actions? This is a classic example of scamming the system through a loop-hole.
     
  5. Aug 5, 2010 #4

    Evo

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    I have no problem with the offspring of legal immigrants that do not yet have citizenship being automatically made legal citizens, but never the offspring of illegals. Doesn't that reward people for breaking the law?

    I don't see the child as being punished, the child still has the citizenship of it's natural parents.
     
  6. Aug 5, 2010 #5

    cristo

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    That's not really answered my question. Ok, here's another question: who do you think will ultimately be punished by refusing such a child citizenship? Do you think it's the parents who made the conscious decision to enter the country illegally who will be worse off, or the child who grows up stateless in a country s/he feels outcast in?

    This has nothing to do with scamming the system, but more to do with human rights. I usually don't buy the whole "human rights" argument, but in this case we are talking about an innocent child. Of course, perhaps it's not too surprising to hear this argument being brought since we all know there are only two countries in the world that don't support the rights of the child...
     
  7. Aug 5, 2010 #6

    Evo

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    Cristo, isn't that akin to saying that if you are born Mexican that you are born a substandard person? That a child of Mexican nationals remains a Mexican national is not a bad thing.

    And yes, if you look up my earlier postions on illegal immigrants, I have made a 180 degree change. We simply cannot save the world anymore. I'm not against legal immigration, just illegals. We can no longer assimilate them. We can't provide jobs, healthcare, housing, or financial security for our legal citizens.

    Instead of people criticising the US for saying we can't do this anymore, the anger should be directed at the government of Mexico for their abuse of their lower class citizens.

    I'd like to see a trade system, for every hard working Mexican that wishes to work in the US, we get to send an equal number of our white trash to them.
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2010
  8. Aug 5, 2010 #7
    Where the child grows up is not my problem. Let's look at the alternative, is the child going to grow up in America by itself, since his or her parents are not able to stay here legally? This is not even a remotely reasonable solution.

    Being a US citizen is not a human right. So what if it's an innocent child, that excuses nothing. The child is free to assume the citizenship of its parents, grow up in said country, and apply for immigration review to the United States like any other person.
     
  9. Aug 5, 2010 #8
    How is the child being punished?
     
  10. Aug 5, 2010 #9

    cristo

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    Of course it's not saying that any other nationality is substandard to that of the US (note I didn't say anything about Mexicans!)

    You are punishing the child in the sense that you are tarring it with the brush of being a criminal before it has even had the chance to breathe. Furthermore, by not allowing the child citizenship, you are denying the child things like healthcare or education (both of which I appreciate some of you do not class as human rights). It's the child that is more likely to die because their parents are scared of being reported and deported when turning up at a hospital; the child who is going to grow up without an education and end up flipping burgers for a cash in hand, no questions asked wage.

    Maybe we have different morals, or different opinions on issues like this (and that's fine.. we are, after all, from different sides of the pond), but I'm strongly of the belief that children should be given the best opportunity in life, regardless of whatever mistakes their parents have made. If granting them citizenship will help that, then I really don't see a problem.
     
  11. Aug 5, 2010 #10

    Evo

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    I fully understand your POV. It used to be mine. As a Mexican national, the kid will still be able to get a free ride on our system, up to a point. What is needed is to put a stop to the incentive for illegals to cross the border. Sadly, we have to.
     
  12. Aug 5, 2010 #11
    US itself has lots of children who need better enviornment.

    Statiscally I believe legal American Mexicians are behind in getting good education or earning good salaries in America (I will get a link for this). Leaving illegal parent child in America wouldn't get him good life.
     
  13. Aug 5, 2010 #12

    cristo

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    There is no real way to stop that though. The Mexican society seems to consist of moderately-very wealthy and extremely poor. The first class are likely to be able to earn a decent wage staying in Mexico, but for the second class, the obvious answer is to cross the border, get a cash in hand job, and earn lots of money to send back home (or perhaps take their family and live off the state). I don't know too much about this, but I wouldn't think it was as clear cut a case as claiming that all or even most illegal immigrants want to live off the state-- lots just want to work!
     
  14. Aug 5, 2010 #13
    Yes, that's precisely what I'm doing. I do not want to pay for health care and education for children that are effectively smuggled into the country illegally, using my hard earned dollar. There are plenty of legal Americans and government programs that need that don't need this money cyphened off.

    Irrelevant.

    Fine, then you pick up the bill for these people in your taxes, not mine.
     
  15. Aug 5, 2010 #14
    Yeah, there is - change the law.

    ....<shrug> thats Mexico's problem. Not only are they here illegally, they are sending money out of the country! It doesn't matter if they want to work - there are plenty of people who want to come here legally and work. This is an excuse, not an answer.
     
  16. Aug 5, 2010 #15

    Char. Limit

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    Wouldn't legal immigration allow them to work and have children without fear of deportation?

    If you want to live here so badly, do it legally.
     
  17. Aug 5, 2010 #16
    Not at all. I'm simply not affording the child any additional rights that he wouldn't have had anyway if his parents didn't break the law. If the child is punished at all, he is really punished by his parents who insist on raising him in a foreign country where he has no legal right to work or even stay, even though he could grow up just fine in his parents' home village in Mexico or Guatemala, just like millions of other kids.

    By the way, there was a Supreme Court decision that illegals can't be denied healthcare or K-12 just because of their status.

    There's no legal pathway for Mexicans to immigrate here, except through marriage and through H1 status (and, for that, IIRC, they need at least a master's degree from a Mexican university, so that automatically rules out 85% of the population).
     
    Last edited: Aug 5, 2010
  18. Aug 5, 2010 #17

    cristo

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    I think that sentiment nicely sums up the whole situation, to be honest!
     
  19. Aug 5, 2010 #18

    cristo

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    Are you living in a different reality? Do you know how difficult it is for anyone to migrate to the US these days, let alone a Mexican who likely has a comparatively low level of education and earning power?
     
  20. Aug 5, 2010 #19

    Evo

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    Cristo, on one hand, I feel so bad for the Mexican's that are willing to work their butts off to have a better life, which is why I always supported them. But reality has finally sunk in. The old US, the American dream, you work hard and be a good worker and you'll have a job for life and a retirement are now just old dreams of a bygone era. Unfortunately the dream went away before the country could adapt.
     
  21. Aug 5, 2010 #20
    Not really, because thanks to the Mexican government and its corruption, now it's my problem too.
     
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