15% versus 9% of GDP

  • Thread starter PhilKravitz
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  • #1
PhilKravitz

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  • #2
You know the old saying "You give a man a fish he'll eat for a day, you teach a man to fish he'll eat for a life time." Well when the man gives you fish everyday, that's what happens. The Democrats are good people for wanting to help the lesser fortuned in America, but the Republicans are smart in knowing that you can't help the good poor without helping the bad poor and without making the good poor lazy and know they can take handouts.
 
  • #3
DavidSnider
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Baby Boomers?
 
  • #4
phyzguy
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Why does the US spend 15% of GDP on health care and other countries like Canada 10%, UK 8.5%, New Zealand 8%, Japan 8%, Poland 6.2% spend less?

source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
Not only does the US spend more, but we get lower quality care. See the studies below. Our health care system is seriously broken. We need to move to government-financed health care. This can work, as witnessed by many other industrialized economies.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE65M0SU20100623

http://www.commonwealthfund.org/Content/Publications/Fund-Reports/2010/Jun/Mirror-Mirror-Update.aspx.
 
  • #5
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You know the old saying "You give a man a fish he'll eat for a day, you teach a man to fish he'll eat for a life time." Well when the man gives you fish everyday, that's what happens. The Democrats are good people for wanting to help the lesser fortuned in America, but the Republicans are smart in knowing that you can't help the good poor without helping the bad poor and without making the good poor lazy and know they can take handouts.
You do realize that the Europeans' health care system is more government run than the US, don't you? By your logic the European system should be using a greater amount of GDP than the American system.
 
  • #6
talk2glenn
You guys do realize this is not the politics forum? None of these responses is of any scientific value.

To the OP:

The simplest economic answer is some combination of comparative advantage and relative values. Americans value healthcare higher and/or are at a comparative disadvantage in supplying healthcare relative to European countries.

Which and by how much is a matter of debate, but the studied consensus seems to be both.
 
  • #7
PhilKravitz
To the OP:

The simplest economic answer is some combination of comparative advantage and relative values. Americans value healthcare higher and/or are at a comparative disadvantage in supplying healthcare relative to European countries.

Which and by how much is a matter of debate, but the studied consensus seems to be both.
I would think Europeans value basic medical care just as much as Americans. Get a cut get stitches. Got to believe this is about the same EU versus US. So what types of medical care are more offered in the US versus say the EU?

What is causing our comparative disadvantage?

I would love to put this in politics but when I try the topic of medical care there it is immediately moved to some obscure board. So I just started on a somewhat obscure board to start with. This seems to be topic that raises strong emotion responses and is forbidden.
 
  • #8
Pengwuino
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Yah wouldn't the baby boomers and their greater enrollment of government sponsored health care programs (medicare) be responsible for this? Come to think of it... does Europe have a 'baby boomers' generation?
 
  • #9
PhilKravitz
Yah wouldn't the baby boomers and their greater enrollment of government sponsored health care programs (medicare) be responsible for this? Come to think of it... does Europe have a 'baby boomers' generation?
Yes! And they have a far greater demographic issue due to many old, few young workers. Large amounts of immigration make the demographic issue somewhat less in the US.
 
  • #10
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Yah wouldn't the baby boomers and their greater enrollment of government sponsored health care programs (medicare) be responsible for this? Come to think of it... does Europe have a 'baby boomers' generation?
I would guess that some European countries may have had baby booms (I know, that sounded really confident). The reason that there was the baby boom happened in the US was that after the war American spirits were flurishing and the economy was booming. It was the perfect storm for, well, baby making activites. In addition to that, the idea of the nuclear family was coming into fruition which pretty much was an advertisement to have a family. On top of that it created an atmosphere that people felt like social pariahs if they did not fit the mold. I have never heard of a baby boom in Europe but I may just be ignorant to it. My educated guess would be it didn't happen because the destruction caused by the war in Europe would not have allowed for the conditions that happened in the US (stated above).
 
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  • #11
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Yes! And they have a far greater demographic issue due to many old, few young workers. Large amounts of immigration make the demographic issue somewhat less in the US.
Do you have a source? I would be interested in learning about it.
 
  • #12
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IMO - the above average cost US healthcare can be traced to investment in healthcare - coupled with extensive Government participation (Medicare and Medicaid).

This link addresses investment.
http://theincidentaleconomist.com/wordpress/what-makes-the-us-health-care-system-so-expensive-investment-in-health/

"Investment in health is made of three categories: (1) prevention and public health, (2) public investment in research and development, and (3) investment in medical facilities. It may surprise you (it certainly did me), that the United States spends a surprising amount in this category – $144 billion in 2006. Still more surprising is that this is more than you would expect given out wealth, $50 billion more than you would expect."

As for Medicare and Medicaid - this link gives an overview:

http://www.kff.org/medicaid/upload/Key%20Medicare%20and%20Medicaid%20Statistics.pdf [Broken]
 
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  • #13
PhilKravitz
  • #14
Well i live in northern ireland, and was born and raised in ireland, there was a very large baby boom here in the 70s and early 80s and in most of europe at other times in the last 30 or so years. heath care here is a very important two we maybe european but still heath care is the most important to most of europe more important the defence and other civil services
 
  • #15
OmCheeto
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Why does the US spend 15% of GDP on health care and other countries like Canada 10%, UK 8.5%, New Zealand 8%, Japan 8%, Poland 6.2% spend less?

source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_care_in_the_United_States
Because we're fat.

Country__%ofGDPsohc__Obese Males(%)___Obese Females(%)
Japan___________8.1__________2.9__________3.3
China___________4.6__________2.4__________3.4
Italy___________9.0__________7.4__________8.9
Cuba____________7.7__________8.0_________11.8
France_________11.0_________16.1_________17.6
Russia__________5.3_________11.8_________20.1
Germany________10.6_________20.5_________21.1
UK______________8.2_________22.3_________23.0
Canada_________10.0_________22.9_________23.2
US_____________15.3_________31.1_________33.2


ref: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=tsI9mtBAHd84DHdNQhO17Pg#gid=0"



Kenneth Thorpe said:
An obese person will have an average of $8,315 in medical bills a year in 2018 compared with $5,855 for an adult at a healthy weight. That's a difference of $2,460.
ref: http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/weightloss/2009-11-17-future-obesity-costs_N.htm"
 
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  • #16
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Russia is very odd. Every other country, women are on average 1.5% more likely to be obese. But Russia is far different with hungry guys and well fed women. Typo?
 
  • #17
OmCheeto
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Russia is very odd. Every other country, women are on average 1.5% more likely to be obese. But Russia is far different with hungry guys and well fed women. Typo?
Not according to the http://apps.who.int/bmi/index.jsp" [Broken].

Russia is odd in another way though

Country__%ofGDPsohc______Cardiovascular mortality rates, 2004 (per 100,000 population)
Japan___________8.1______103
China___________4.6______279
Italy___________9.0______155
Cuba____________7.7______207
France_________11.0______123
Russia__________5.3______645
Germany________10.6______199
UK______________8.2______175
Canada_________10.0______131
US_____________15.3______179


Perhaps their medical rates are so low because they don't bother fixing lifestyle induced illnesses. Might be a good model for the US to look at. If you smoke, eat too much, don't exercise enough, or just generally don't take care of yourself, it's obvious you don't care about your health, so why should society. Get in the path of the bus please. Next!

:bugeye:

Man that looks like a Libertarian death squad comment I just made.
 
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