2010 Nobel Prize in Physics

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Office_Shredder
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Gokul43201
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The UK leads on per capita basis.

And it would be interesting to compare countries of origin. I think that, among recent US laureates, the foreign-born share is at least 1/3 and possibly more. Just looking at 2009 laureates in sciences, 8 out of 9 had US citizenship, but only 3 were native-born.

It's the same with Fields. Many laureates work in the United States, but there has only been one bona fide American laureate since 1994.
Do you believe the majority of immigrants won their Prizes for work done in the home countries? My guess: most likely not.

Do you think most of the immigrant Laureates would have won their Prizes had they remained in the home states? Again, I think most likely not.

Would they have won had they emigrated to a different country, like the UK, Germany or France? That's a harder question, and I think, probably at a lower frequency.

Bonafide Americanness is irrelevant if the discussion is about which country creates the best atmosphere for Nobel worthy research. In some fields in particular, there is no doubting the fact the US institutions dominate.

Economics is a great example. Since the Economics Prize was instituted about 40 years ago, 70% of the Laureates have been Americans.
 
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While browsing BBC news yesterday, I ran across this, interesting stats...

"[URL [Broken] country has the best brains?
Total Nobel prizes won since 1901 top five countries[/URL]

The US outranks the UK by almost a 3 to 1 ratio

US 323
UK 117
Germany 103
France 57
Sweden 28

Rhody...
I'm sorry, but does anyone else find these arguments a little silly? America's a bigger country. Perhaps we could compare Western Europe to America, or the 'Middle East' to the old commonwealth countries. Or Fiji to the rest of the world.

Do you believe the majority of immigrants won their Prizes for work done in the home countries? My guess: most likely not.

Do you think most of the immigrant Laureates would have won their Prizes had they remained in the home states? Again, I think most likely not.

Would they have won had they emigrated to a different country, like the UK, Germany or France? That's a harder question, and I think, probably at a lower frequency.

Bonafide Americanness is irrelevant if the discussion is about which country creates the best atmosphere for Nobel worthy research. In some fields in particular, there is no doubting the fact the US institutions dominate.

Economics is a great example. Since the Economics Prize was instituted about 40 years ago, 70% of the Laureates have been Americans.
If someone wins the nobel prize at an American Institution and their not 'American' (whatever that means), and they studied their undergraduate and/or Ph.D elsewhere, does it count as an American Nobel Prize? I'm sure the research faculties are comprised of researches from all over the world. I like your point about whether the same individual would have been able to conduct the research that won the nobel prize elsewhere; but again, America is a big country with many insitutions, which needs to be taken in to account: you could have absolutely loads of colleges, and only a very small minority provide the opportunity for winning nobel prizes.
Personally, I think it's ridiculous to claim any credit for the achievements of others purely through a tenuous connection of 'nationality'. It would be absolutley absurd for me to claim any credit for Newton, Hooke, Wren, Darwin, Turing, and so on. Or for a Frenchman to claim any credit for the work of Legrange, de Broglie, Carnot, Fourier, etc. Okay, it's probably the case that, born in certain other countries, they may not have had the opportunity to go on to do the great things they did. I actually think it's extrememly likely that within the 'western' countries, individuals who would have made great scientists never had the opportunity, perhaps because of their socio-economic background, think of all the lost and wasted talent! I'm not that familiar with the American system, but don't they charge absurd amounts of money for an education at a good insitution, what happens if you can't afford it, is every single place open to a scholarship? Doubtful. So it's certainly not meritocratic.
But anyway, back to my rambling point, I think we should give the individuals credit for THEIR achievements, for all the hard work THEY have done, and stop sponging off of their hard work through a tenuous connection of nationality!
 
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  • #29
Ygggdrasil
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I think the statistics on laureates that Rhody posted are less indicative of which nationalities/ethnicities are more or less intelligent, but instead reflect which national governments provide the most funding for scientific research and are therefore able to attract the best scientists. Something to keep in mind as the UK plans significant cuts to science.
 
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rhody
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I think the statistics on laureates that Rhody posted are less indicative of which nationalities/ethnicities are more or less intelligent, but instead reflect which national governments provide the most funding for scientific research and are therefore able to attract the best scientists. Something to keep in mind as the UK plans significant cuts to science.
yggdrasil,

I hesitated before posting the BBC article, knowing full well that some may take offense to it. I think anything these days that stirs "Nationalist" feelings these days is not a good thing. That being said, BBC News is all about revenues and interest, positive or negative surely helps their ratings.

Nobahar,
Personally, I think it's ridiculous to claim any credit for the achievements of others purely through a tenuous connection of 'nationality'.
and
I think we should give the individuals credit for THEIR achievements, for all the hard work THEY have done, and stop sponging off of their hard work through a tenuous connection of nationality!
With what I just said, does that make sense ? No offense was intended.

Rhody...
 
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I hesitated before posting the BBC article, knowing full well that some may take offense to it. I think anything these days that stirs "Nationalist" feelings these days is not a good thing.
With what I just said, does that make sense ? No offense was intended.

Rhody...
I didn't take offense! Sorry Rhody, the last part about nationalism wasn't a reply to your post, I wasn't suggesting that you thought that or took credit for their work, I just thought it was germane to the conversation. After all, comparisons between countries were being made, and there is a tendency to associate oneself with a country.

I think the statistics on laureates that Rhody posted are less indicative of which nationalities/ethnicities are more or less intelligent, but instead reflect which national governments provide the most funding for scientific research and are therefore able to attract the best scientists. Something to keep in mind as the UK plans significant cuts to science.
I know, 'apparently' other major European countries are maintaing or even increasing theirs. There's also this rather scary 'increasing the cap on tuition fees' thing being considered. Just another step the UK is taking to impede the life chances of the people who live here. Impeding the opportunity they may have to make a contribution to science (I know that just a moment ago I was arguing against nationality, but I did also say that, like Gokul, the country in which people lives does have an effect on whether or not individuals living in that country can reach their potential).
Again, sorry Rhody, that wasn't levelled at you!
 
  • #32
rhody
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Impeding the opportunity they may have to make a contribution to science (I know that just a moment ago I was arguing against nationality, but I did also say that, like Gokul, the country in which people lives does have an effect on whether or not individuals living in that country can reach their potential).
Again, sorry Rhody, that wasn't levelled at you!
Nobahar,

No offense taken, Gokul and you have made a valid argument, it seems that all of Europe is in a similar predicament, attempting to bring deficits in line with spending, and to reduce existing deficits. It is a sad fact that when a period of austerity is imposed on a country, one of the first areas hit is R&D in every sector of the scientific community. That being sad, we in the US are not far behind you. When people are suffering history repeated shows that it takes little kindling to ignite Nationalism with all of it's devastating consequences. Sorry for taking this thread off topic. Wanted to make this clear.

Rhody...
 

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