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2012 mayan calender end of world astro line up opens stargate

  1. Jun 10, 2006 #1
    I am a sceptical TV documentary-maker currently involved with a team making a film about 2012, the end of the Mayan Calander and involved in this is a claim that a special alignment of the earth relative to the centre of our galaxy opens a portal (like stargate) :rolleyes: that the indigenous tribe we are working with claims will open, allowing two-way travel through what sounds like a wormhole.:surprised

    What I ask of this group is a reference to any special "alignment" that may happen around this time (december,2012) and whatever the result we need to create some animation that describes this so we need someone reputable to do some research along these lines for our film and some ideas for our animators.

    All comments welcome.
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 10, 2006 #2
    man, can't people just make up their mind:zzz: ? oh we're going to die from bird flue, today its 6/6/06 the world is going to end, december 2012 the world will be sucked into a black hole. Wonder what we'll think of next:rofl:
  4. Jun 10, 2006 #3
    Not so much the end of the world they say but close, usual eartquakes etc but at least they have identified the supposed gates location which is under investigation, I post a pic soon.

    come on anyone with the tech to help me!
  5. Jun 10, 2006 #4


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    Two points, earth and galactic center, determine a line --- they got that much right --- now, all we gotta do is figure out what's so special about about that line compared to the infinite number of other lines that can be drawn between earth and the galactic center.

    "Alignment" is a word used by freaks, loons, mystics, bunco artists, frauds, kooks, and the front end mechanic down at Meineke. Rot is rot, and that's nice as far as documentaries go, because it leaves you free to make up the visual effects as you go along --- little "2001" plus maybe some old "Time Tunnel" footage? Don't forget to include something from the "Heaven's Gate" suicide scene.
  6. Jun 10, 2006 #5


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    rustandplastic, if it isn't apparent already, overly-speculative ideas such as end-of-world theories don't have much truck around here. That's not going to get you answers you're looking for.
  7. Jun 10, 2006 #6
    I agree, as i said im a sceptic, but I am after some real scientist to use some predictive model and show me how the earths position will be (and the galaxy) will look on that date for the animation. I also include the following quote and say that "It pays to investigate".
    I make films for clients on whatever their subject is, for money and fun.
    At least its interesting searching for the truth.
    Indigenous peoples of the world seem to have some stories,myths and legends that they pass on orally in great secret, some of these secrets they are destined in thier "prophesies" to reveal at this time. I'm not here to judge I want any legitimate evidence that might apply.
    thanks for your post, know anyone that can provide such a predictive model?

    “All truth passes through three stages.
    First, it is ridiculed,
    second it is violently opposed,
    and third, it is accepted as self-evident."
    - Arthur Schopenhauer German philosopher, 1788-1860
  8. Jun 10, 2006 #7


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  9. Jun 10, 2006 #8


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    Then just show a picture of how the Earth is positioned in the galaxy now, because the difference in its position relative to the Galaxy's center in 6 years compared to its position now wouldn't even be noticeable; something in the order of 1/25000 of a degree.
  10. Jun 10, 2006 #9
    cheers for that link, I am the most pragmatic, evidence based sort of person but when I see basically the same story in many cultures, just not with the date the mayans give us, it seems worth a look. Well the client convinced me so here I am, I am here to learn from my more learned (and specialised) peers.
    Janus thank you!
  11. Jun 10, 2006 #10
    you might want to see a film called "what the bleep do we know" full of interesting stuff and presented by some powerful quantum phyicists.

    I didnt make it but wished I had! Quite challenging.
    Last edited by a moderator: Aug 5, 2006
  12. Jun 10, 2006 #11


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    My numbers come out to 10-5 degree; for the TV audience you can place a piece of printer paper on a table 3 1/2 miles from the camera and ask the audience to pick the upper or lower side of the paper's edge.

    "What the bleep?" That the yoga loonies?
  13. Jun 10, 2006 #12
    Guess you really are a homework helper, thanks, nice.
    yes one "loony tune" otherwise pretty straight as the list below attests
    opening your mind is mentioned, often, by previously incredulous scientists, check it out then judge. I didnt really want to get of topic but
    heres a list

    William Tiller, Ph.D.
    Amit Goswami
    John Hagelin, Ph.D.
    Fred Alan Wolf, Ph.D.
    Dr. David Albert


    Dr. Masaru Emoto
    Stuart Hameroff M.D.
    Dr. Jeffrey Satinover
    Andrew B. Newberg, M.D.
    Dr. Daniel Monti
    Dr. Joseph Dispenza


    Dr. Candace Pert


    Dr. Miceal Ledwith

    a reminder of my initial request
    "What I ask of this group is a reference to any special "alignment" that may happen around this time (december,2012) and whatever the result we need to create some animation that describes this so we need someone reputable to do some research along these lines for our film and some ideas for our animators."

    so 2012 has no significance, at all, to any astro guys?
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  14. Jun 10, 2006 #13


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    Well, I turn 65 --- physical chemist rather than an "astro guy," but same time, it's a license to stick my nose just about wherever I want.

    "Pretty straight" is a relative term when you're discussing the QM crowd --- some keep their feet on the ground and remember they haven't done the first ionization potential for helium yet, and others go wandering off into the "philosophical woods" musing on "many worlds" vs. Copenhagen --- the second bunch can be entertaining, but aren't to be taken too terribly seriously when you've got real work to do.l
  15. Jun 10, 2006 #14
    ahh conversation thats better
    Perhaps "the bleep" might inspire another thread and your opinion noted with respect.
    I'm a mere child of 47 or so but I will reserve my decision on all this till a
    suitably qualified specialist or three can concur. Perhaps I should post some of my "loony" clients research and let you rip it apart, either way controversy works for film-making....look at the da Vinci code, the author always said it was fiction, but the church helped him sell millions.
    Please remember I have no agenda here but the facts and to make an interesting and as accurate as possible film.
    So if they let me I will leave this thread open for a while..bedtime its 4am in sydney...catch up with the post on the morrow.
    oh Ok I cant sleep yet so, some more fun.
    The mayans, my clients believe, are privvy to some knowledge perhaps it is similar to this train of thought - sorry i will post the source later...

    http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20060607-9999-lz1c07meinel.html [Broken]

    So if the calendar is about predicting, solar flares/cosmic bursts/asteroids whatever
    it would seeem prudent to my mind to ask some experts.
    So if there is no, I will try to choose my words better sir, yes sir, anything that may fit the scenario let me at it...maybe I should have mentioned there are several paid interviewee positions for this film.
    OK now its goodnight from downunder (the bloods rushing to my head being upside down n' all..)
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  16. Jun 10, 2006 #15


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    By all means, hang around. If I see the History Channel sink H.M.S. Barham one more time at Tsushima I'm going to puke --- documentary types should do as you're doing much more often than has been done in the past.

    2012? You can play numerology games: count solar or lunar eclipses (with the ephemeris in the link) from the starting date of the calendar to 2012 and compare the numbers to numbers of steps on temples, or to "significant" numbers archaeologists have winkled from temple carvings and inscriptions. Look at long period comets due to appear in 2012 --- Shoemaker-Levy is a tough act to follow --- means I haven't really paid all that much attention to comets lately.

    http://cometography.com/periodic_comets.html lists periodic beasts --- there're a handful scheduled for 2012, few more in 2011 --- check periods vs. the funny year and cycles in pre-Columbian calendars, and number of appearances vs. "magic" numbers. It's numerology, and nothing more than coincidence if something does match, but can be offered as a possible root for ending a calendar other than that the mason ran out of room.
  17. Jun 10, 2006 #16


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    I guess it will be truly debunked in 2013 when we wake up on New Year's day and see that the world hasn't yet come to an end.

    If the prediction is so vague that it doesn't specify what will align, then it's useless. The only way to test it would be if it did specify a specific alignment and then we could verify that that particular alignment would actually occur. I'm not an astronomer or physicist, but it seems to me that if you draw a line between two sufficiently distant points in the universe, something else lining up on that path as well is probably pretty likely. Whether or not you call it "special" depends on your point of view and how much you believe in hocus pocus. At least to us non-astronomers, "special" means it's something we can see with the naked eye or crude telescopes to enjoy seeing something we don't get to see every day, even if in the greater scheme of the whole universe, it is something that isn't all that uncommon or unusual. So, what do you define as "special?"
  18. Jun 10, 2006 #17


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    Astromomy needs a spring clean.
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2006
  19. Jun 11, 2006 #18
    thanks bystander thats the idea! thanks for the link.
    couldnt agree with you more wolram, that goes for all science I think.
    As more multi discipline studies like this engender more cooperation.
    I am all for a complete debunking of all this if its done with pure science.

    Ok so lets define this "alignment" as the sun/earth moving to a plane equal to the eclpictic plane of the milky way and specify an increase in the intensity of the cyclic sunspot activity as the result. I realise the centre of the galaxy is probably a black hole not a "sun" as described here but let that go and comment on these supplied images.

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  20. Jun 11, 2006 #19


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    First image: 10-5 degrees/a for earth's (solar system's) revolution about the galactic center means the path of the earth from 1000 BCE to 5000 AD ain't gonna show up as anything but a dot from any "normal" perspective of the picture shown; if I distort it by moving the observer's position to a fixed point at some distance, dr, greater than the solar system's average orbital radius beyond earth's position at some point in 2012, I can elongate the system track to any length I wish in the galactic plane by decreasing dr (increasing parallax); I do NOT get the same elongation in the vertical plane. I'm going to have to guess that this is some peculiar astrological projection, and I've no idea what relation it might be thought to have with physical reality. If we look at Barnard's Star, 10 asec/a, for 6ka, and move it 8.5 degrees above and below the galactic plane from earth, at the distance implied in the perspective, the track might be the length of the circle used to mark 2012.

    Second image: title is legible, but the labels on the diagram aren't --- got a silly astrological look to it. http://www.rssd.esa.int/Hipparcos/properm.html might be a better source for looking at "proper motion" of stars --- claims to animate the Pleiades.

    Third: weather goes to hell and civilization follows --- or, Toba, or Tambora ("eighteen hundred and froze to death").

    General note: nothing magical about the galactic plane --- it's a reference for measurement.
  21. Jun 11, 2006 #20


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    This post contradicts your previous post. Discussions of that movie don't go far either, and your discriminating ear and your understanding of physics need some work if you can't see why.

    For your question about the "alignment", most decent astronomy software (I use starry night) will allow you to position yourself virtually anywhere in the solar system to watch the planets move. For the galaxy, though, we aren't even sure what loks like and it won't move appreciably on human timescales either, so the only way to animate it is to find an artist's conception of it and do a flyby/zoom on that picture.

    For that little graphic you have of this "alignment" - the Pleiades is not on the galactic plane and won't be in 2012 - or in 10,000 (the limit of Starry Night's ability to calculate). On that timescale, I can't even tell if it is moving towards or away the galactic plane. If you want, you can take stills from a program like Starry Night, frame-out the Pleiades and the galactic plane, animate them to watch the stars' proper motion, and watch it not move on anything under a geologic timeframe. It wouldn't make for a very interesting animation, though.
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