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News A bit of irony regarding Obama

  1. Jan 9, 2010 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    Many here are surely familiar with the claims that Obama is a closet socialist. What is funny about this is that I have a friend who calls himself a true socialist. In fact, formally he is probably a Marxist. He is well-studied in political philosophy.

    He can't stand the evil capitalist, Obama. On any given day I may receive emails from freinds [work associates] on the right who hate Obama the socialist, and then emails from a real socialist who hates the capitalist, Obama.

    I just take the average of the two sides and keep smiling.
     
    Last edited: Jan 9, 2010
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  3. Jan 9, 2010 #2
    Marginally along the lines of irony and socialism and whatnot, I can't wait for the day when the people (predominantly a section of US society) who froth at the mouth about what they call "socialism" wake up, flip a light switch, and when the lights come on in their house, a light goes on in their brain. "Ohhhh," they'll say, "now I get it."
     
  4. Jan 9, 2010 #3

    Ivan Seeking

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    Last summer when crowds were frothing at the mouth in town hall meetings over health care reform, there was one Democratic Congressman who responded to the socialism claims by asking how many of those making accusations were collecting social security benefits. Given that much of the crowd was near or past retirement age, it got very quiet.
     
  5. Jan 9, 2010 #4

    f95toli

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    Indeed.
    It is quite interesting to note that Sweden (which many people in the US would consider to be "socialist" country, despite the fact that the current government is conservative/liberal) has over the past few years started looking to the US for ideas when it comes to e.g. anti-trust regulations etc.
    The reason being that the US has (or at least had, before Bush) one of the most tightly regulated private sectors in the world. The rules in Sweden (not to mention in here in the UK) are actually much less strict.
     
  6. Jan 9, 2010 #5

    russ_watters

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    Sooo......you're saying that Obama isn't a socialist, but those who attend townhall meetings are?

    I see irony in trying to play multiple sides of an issue at the same time while creating false absolutes and dichotomies!

    All of this is intended to obscure the fact that Obama - socialist or not - is extremely liberal. And by "extremely", I mean he to the left of the vast majority of the US, as judged by his voting record before he started campaigning.

    And you being such a huge fan of Obama and huge critic of the right, while claiming to "take the average" is just laughable.
     
  7. Jan 9, 2010 #6
    obama is a closet socialist? his government hasn't introduced any meaningful banking regulations, health care reform & hasn't changed anything about the patriot act, has escalated the war in afghanistan.... this is really the government of a closet socialist?
     
  8. Jan 9, 2010 #7
    Not to answer for Ivan, but what I understood from his post was that people who are participating in and benefiting from social programs getting all wound up about "socialism" has a lovely tinge of irony to it. Just like the woman interviewed at the Tea Bag protest who was yelling for the government to stay out of her Medicaid.


    That's a matter of comparatives. Obama is pretty far right of the majority of Canadians. (I know you're not talking about Canadians. I'm just pointing out a comparative.)

    One more edit: "liberal" is not a synonym for "socialist"
     
  9. Jan 9, 2010 #8

    Borek

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    Last year I have seen on TV a clip from US with protesters, and some guy (slightly older than me) stated to the camera something like "we don't want the socialism here, you know in your country what it is like". Obviously he was aware that he is speaking to Polish audience, he was obviously not aware of the fact that he made an idiot of himself, as often happens when people speak about things thay have no idea about.

    No matter how hard Obama would try (I am not stating he IS trying) he won't be able to make US "socialist" country without making a pudding from the Constitution first. I doubt that is going to happen.
     
  10. Jan 9, 2010 #9

    Hurkyl

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    So... Obama is not a socialist because there exists someone more socialist?

    I have no real idea either way, but I do know this is isn't a good argument.
     
  11. Jan 9, 2010 #10

    lisab

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    When Bush was elected (twice, no less!), there were many on the left who talked about moving to Canada. When Obama was elected, a conservative friend of mine talked of leaving the country...which made me practically hit the floor laughing, asking him "Where? Where is there a modern country to the right of the US?"
     
  12. Jan 9, 2010 #11

    Hurkyl

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    Why does it have to be left vs right? I know what scared me about Obama's election was simply how so many people seemed blindly enthralled.
     
  13. Jan 9, 2010 #12

    lisab

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    Actually I was surprised at that, too. I supported him because of his stance on several issues and I thought he would be a steady hand at the tiller...I never got the "rock star" vibe.

    After the election, I thought the adulation really went overboard. Yes, I was glad he won, yes I realized he was black...but come on, he's just a man. The Nobel prize was simply over the top, IMO.

    That said, I'm still very, very glad he's the President.
     
  14. Jan 9, 2010 #13
    yes I agree. People in somalia may think that the United states is a socialist country given that they possess no state. And there are variants of socialism that range from allowing the state to have limited state power to allowing the state to have full state power.

    it is a bit of a misnomer, at least in the united states, as well as the word 'conservative'.
     
  15. Jan 9, 2010 #14

    OmCheeto

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    I think we should just start calling things what they really are:

    Socialist Security
    Socialist Healthcare=(medicaid)

    Then we could shame all the above socialists into moving to some socialist country, since we are not a socialist country, and they simply don't belong here. This would cut our budget nearly in half, and we could go back to watching Oprah in our spare time, instead of trying to figure out what to call Obama.

    Can I see a show of hands for France please. I think I saw that they were the most heavily tax burdened nation in the world a while back. I'm sure they won't notice a few extra people. http://www.forbes.com/global/2009/0413/034-tax-misery-reform-index.html" [Broken]

    Ditto. Walking by a magazine rack at work, I was like;

    week 1: "Is he the only person people are allowed to take pictures of?"
    week 2: "Ok then, we know what he looks like."
    week 3: "Enough already!"
    week 4: "Noooooo! The republican's were right! It's Obamania!"
    Double ditto.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  16. Jan 9, 2010 #15

    Borek

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    Judging by numbers for Poland - personal income tax of 32% is the maximum possible, only a small fraction of population pays that much. I have nothing against being in this fraction, but I am with minority at 19%.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  17. Jan 9, 2010 #16

    turbo

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    Obama came into office with extremely high expectations on the part of the progressives, and extremely high negative perceptions and resistance on the part of the neo-con GOP and their surrogates. He has pleased neither extreme.

    The truth is that without some cooperation from Congress, he cannot fix ANY problem that requires legislative action, and the GOP in Congress is in lock-step trying to stop any initiatives that he might favor, in order to hand him losses. The GOP pretty much had free rein during W's administration, and they could have reformed banking, monetary policy, health-care, etc, and chose not to do any of that. Now that hard choices have to be made, instead of coming up with new ideas, negotiations, and compromise, they throw tantrums instead of cooperating and crafting legislation.
     
  18. Jan 9, 2010 #17

    Hurkyl

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    If congress goes along with the president, they don't have any backbone. If congress goes against the president, they're throwing tantrums.
     
  19. Jan 9, 2010 #18

    Chi Meson

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    I tip my hat to the mentor on my left (Good day Ivan) and to the mentor on my right (How's it going Russ?) and I ask, with utmost respect for the both of you (and this is sincere):

    please get this thread out of GD.

    Edit:

    Whoops! It's out already.

    Moot point. Carry on.
     
  20. Jan 9, 2010 #19
    I think it's ironic (and somewhat disturbing) that Obama hasn't followed up on his C-SPAN pledge:



    He promised this at least 8 times during the campaign, going so far as to say that closed-door meetings was Clinton's "one really big mistake" in 1993:



    I'm not sure how much authority Obama has on rendering Congressional sessions public, but Pelosi apparently has the White House's backing on her decision to wrap things up behind closed doors.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  21. Jan 9, 2010 #20

    Ivan Seeking

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    No, and no. You see, Russ, you are trying to put everyone into little boxes again.

    You might try figuring out the point first.

    Ah, now you are judging motive when you don't understand the point.

    He has been President for a year, and I see someone who has governed from the middle. The real liberals, including many economists, argued that he must nationalize the banks. He didn't. He has been forced to take drastic action due to the damage done by the Republicans and the ideology of minimum regulation.

    Try understanding the point before passing judgment. Little boxes, Russ, little boxes - they don't exist.
     
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