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A Discussion of Existence .

  1. Oct 13, 2009 #1
    A Discussion of "Existence".

    I have been reading these forums for many days and recently decided to make an account. I have read a vast array of topics ranging from Quantum Physics/Mechanics to Transcendentalism, to Buddhism and I have also learned of some new philosophies. I figure expanding my mind lessens my ignorance. I'm a Sociology major and my personal obsession since my father first explained its concept to me at age 7, has been philosophy. My life has brought me from the ghetto, to the middle class, to the upper middle class. My parents divorced when I was 5, I am the oldest of 4 boys, both parents remarried. Essentially I have 4 families covering 3 seperate reiligions. I think that through my life experiences, some out of body, some quite enlightening, some confusing and mind expanding, that I have grown a lot as a person. I really agree with a lot of posts I see, and some people you can just tell are not with it. To my point more so...

    The question I always asked, that we all ask, why are we here? What is the meaning of life, how did we get here, what is reality etc..? I started asking these questions as soon as I could form conscious thoughts... It was something innate, like I had done this before. It was a nagging question that honestly I could feel inside of me, it is all I can remember before my first thoughts. Before I could form words, I was asking it. It is my obsession, as it is for all of us in some way or form.

    As I grew I started asking new questions? What is space what is time? Are there any differences between space and time? I started asking many people questions, I started reading more, but all the arguments kept circling. It wasn't until I started finding NOT answers but instead "Logical" thoughts which could not be dis-proven. As I have read, many of you believe that if it can be imagined, it must not be a paradox, or to rephrase, all things which are a paradox are not a paradox. The foundation of logic, true logic is something that you cannot be taught, as you can't teach common sense. You can gain life experience, but common sense is not something taught, it is innate.

    Essentially I have come to find a few things after I informed myself. I have read works from many famous philosopher's your forum referenced, studied different religions. I also gained much insight from Henry David Thoreau, Ralph Waldo Emerson, Einstein and others.

    Be aware, I am not stating this is an answer or even something that you could ever prove, but the mindset, the enlightened mindset, you can reach it, and you can transcend the "non-enlightened or ignorant" train of thought which we are born into.

    I myself don't really know what religion I am. I guess you could say my religion is an Infinite-Mysticism-Buddhist-Energy Hybrid.

    I base my beliefs of infinite, life, the universe, time, space. All on the same principle, that these things are intertwined and endless.

    All these words: Time/Space/Life/Infinite are names we have given to the human perception of what IS. Yet none of them are things we can truly measure. You say you can measure time? No you cannot. You can make a mathematical model which represents OUR perceptions of time, but you can't measure it. As IVAN and some others have said, INFINITE is their form of an All-Powerful God/Being. In truth "Reality" time/space/life/infinite are all the same. They are the result of the attraction of everything from the obscurity of nothing.

    No matter which theory you believe in or religion, you are here on this planet, existing for what you know to be existence. The big bang, the whatever it is, the "beginning of time/space/existence/life" ALL start at the same time, because before that there was nothing. In order to EXIST in any way, you must CONTRAST to a previous point where there was nothing. In order to be previous you must deduce time and in order for there to be time there has to be us to perceive it. The universe is constantly expanding and thus it had to have begun at some "point". In order to begin, you require time.

    We EXIST PURELY BECAUSE WE WANT TO. This law holds true for everything and is the governing force behind what we as humans call "LOGIC". It is something so pure and so true that we are all connected by it, this idea of logic as we all know it to be. This thought solving process was originated from the universe we were born into. Our perceptions of our surroundings cause logic. Logic is the precise measure of the exact laws which govern our universe. Essentially it is an inevitable outcome of what exists. Essentially ENERGY/LOGIC/CREATION is the culmination of existence, according to the BBT (big bang) the universe started essentially as energy. (not that this can be proven (the big bang)) Yet, everything you see stemmed from some starting point, some creation, how can everything else not be the resultant factor of some creation? Everything that exists is the result of what brought it into existence. This holds true for the earth, and for automobiles and for space itself. So what was before "time/life/space/us/universe/big bang (aka the first .00000000000001 second of the universe)? NOTHING, there was nothing and because of that NOTHING, energy was born. Something which cannot be created or destroyed. Forth from this energy everything stemmed. Planets, life, elements. Things which all create and develop and change, due to the laws which our universe was created under, this is my CODE if you will. This is the code of everything. Are you not afraid of death? Does the idea of utter nothingness not instill a disposition within you? Energy was born or came into existence based UPON the "paradox" that we did NOT exist! Thus we did exist, because we didn't. This may sound contradictory but why did the earth start as one continent at first? Even if you don't believe in evolution you know that the world was at one point one continent. Things are created because they want to be. This is the nature of energy, of the infinite governing logic which has permeated every pore of EXISTENCE. Thus all paradox's are true =P. Essentially we are the result of the energy that manifested the universe. Thus the Buddhist/Mysticism Ideals play into the equation as this energy being reused would then manifest a new life, and rebirth comes into play. As you can't create or destroy energy.

    If you know of the Buddhist belief that you can supersede the notion of "Karma" through mind-body enlightenment (freeing of ignorance). I do believe in meditation and the expansion of the mind, like I said, my religion doesn't fully embrace all beliefs of Buddhism.

    Code (Text):
    The Buddha of the earliest Buddhists texts describes Dharma (in the sense of truth) as "beyond reasoning", or "transcending logic", [U]in the sense that reasoning is a subjectively introduced aspect of the way humans perceive things[/U], and the conceptual framework which underpins it is a part of the cognitive process, rather than a feature of things as they really are. "Beyond reasoning" means in this context penetrating the nature of reasoning from the inside, and removing the causes for experiencing any future stress as a result of it, rather than functioning outside of the system as a whole.
    When you connect with your energy as it exists in the universe and you feel that connection which binds you eternally to everything, you will know.

    It is not a feeling that can be brought about by drugs or emotion, it is something out of body. It is your purpose and your comfort. When you meet other people who understand it, you will know. You will feel/sense or even see it in their eyes.

    I hope you all can read this with an open-mind. I'm not trying to disprove anyone, just share an opinion.

    I know this is vague, as I don't wish to spend all night writing. I could go into further detail.
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2009
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 13, 2009 #2
    Re: A Discussion of "Existence".

    Bump. I clarified a bit, edited and added a tad more.
  4. Oct 13, 2009 #3
    Re: A Discussion of "Existence".

    No one has a clue what existence is, so it doesn't matter much what certain philosopher or scientist said/believed in a book or paper. Existence is so mind-boggling that it most likely will never be understood by a human mind. Maybe we weren't born in the right time, when more information would be available. We are still too animal-like, one could often see and feel that we haven't quite shook off the animal ancestry. Anyway, if you feel confident that you have found out what existence is, you are most certainly wrong. Existence is both something and nothing, infinite and finite, vague and definite, random and determinite, relative and fixed, all at the same time. If there is something that we do know about existence - it is that we don't know almost anything about it.
  5. Oct 13, 2009 #4
    Re: A Discussion of "Existence".

    It is so precise that it could only have resulted from nothingness. As I said. Existence just IS. So I'm not saying I hold all the answers, I'm just saying that you can enlighten your mind as to these things and embrace them, as you have. I'm sure you also know as you have said in your signature, that inevitably we will exist even when the world is gone, even when we are gone. Time is meaningless.

    P.S: love your sig :D
  6. Oct 13, 2009 #5


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    Re: A Discussion of "Existence".

    It was a nice read. In my opinion, discovering what existence is is not as important as discovering what we mean by existence. In fact, how does "discovering what existence is" even make sense? Existence is obviously a concept originating in our mind, but the connections we make to this word are many, ambiguous and probably paradoxical.

    We can only access reality, or what we put into the concept of reality, through our own senses and interpret it in our own minds. Our concepts of this world is originating fundamentally from how we interpret the information given. The only way we relate to the world is by processing and interpreting information. Even fundamental concepts such as truth is entirely a human construct. It is us who apply, or should I say force, these concepts to the world - and it is a fallacy to believe that they are inherent to some objective reality.

    We can find whatever we are looking for by forcing our interpretations to it. Science models the world according the the measurement devices that are being used, and interpret the results in relation to it. There are however infinitely many different perspectives. In a way we can say that our consciousness is creating reality. Time and space are the frameworks of the world in our mind. Some argue that time and space is fundamental to our perception.

    "Meaning" as a concept is also a human construct. It does not make sense to think that we discover what is meaningful, meaning is what we apply to our ideas and what we perceive. Therefore, discovering the meaning of life is actually meaningless in the sense that we assume there is a correct answer, but we just haven`t found it yet.
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2009
  7. Oct 22, 2009 #6
    Re: A Discussion of "Existence".

    Your description of your childhood mindset is parallel to mine. One thing that always frustrated me throughout my life was the fact that everyone accepts their existence so easily. I have always been one who asks questions and has an overall "unbiased" form of reasoning so it always infuriated me how those around me could accept religion so easily. I have grown up in a christian family most of my life and spent most of my time in christian places and have become utterly frustrated with how everyone around me just blindly accepts what they are told about the meaning of life and existence. I'm not saying I'm an atheist; however, most of my life I was very frustrated with the idea of religion. I am a senior in high school and everyone I know is starting to merge into society and have some idea what they want to do with their life, but I can hardly find enough time just to grasp my own existence let alone know what I want to do with it. I feel like it is necessary to accept existence as incomprehensible and move on to changing the things you can.
  8. Oct 23, 2009 #7
    Re: A Discussion of "Existence".

    Do you really want the definition? I can give it you. Quine had a cool definition:

    For our best scientific theory T. The domain D in which T is true. According to Quine, We are committed to the existence D when we quentify over D in which T applies.

    To explain every single detail is too much for me. I just think that is way to dry, so i stop now.
  9. Oct 25, 2009 #8
    Re: A Discussion of "Existence".

    Hi merck.

    I just wanted to say that I do agree with alot of what you said and have a fairly similar view on life and existance in general. My own personal opinion is that most people are afraid to think the thought of having come from nothing so they are blind to that possible reality. What do you think of choice and freewill? What do you think of the possible and the stuff that really happens? How exactly did you come to your understanding of the nothingness that was before? What is your understanding of time also of gravity and energy? If you had to pick one word to use to describe everything what would it be?

    My thoughts on said questions...

    I believe choice is very important to understand and it goes hand in hand with freewill. While it may seem as we do not have choice I believe that choice comes when we are born and is manifests the rest of our lifes. I do believe the matrix put it well... we are not here to make the choice we are here to understand why we made it...

    To me I believe all things are possible up untill they have been removed from possiblity. I think we beings are the ones that choose what is possible by the promisses we make.

    I came to my understanding of the universe and nothingness via a waking dream of the universe itself... It was really an epic journey.

    Personaly I believe time energy mass gravity are all part of the same thing and we just seem them as different.

    My current person word for everything is pressure... but I can see love and intelligence being it also depending on my mood.
  10. Oct 28, 2009 #9
    Re: A Discussion of "Existence".

    Have you ever been in a green ,open place where your lungs full of fresh air ??
    maybe you're asking what is the connection between this & the existence ??

    this question is not new ,& you know Copernicus & his story with the church to prove that the earth is not the centre of the universe ..
    all that have a big relation with each other
    the people in the past think that God create the universe to serve the human ..& we just playing & never thinking about the future or why is the God create us ?? & why he create the earth & gives us brains to think & the perfect bodies to work ??
    Is it an accident like some say ??
    or he want us to do something ??
    the right answer of the last question will be the answer of yours ,too..!!
    why is God (Allah) create us for ??
    why do we exist ??

    I read the bible ..the Qura'an ..read books of philosophy , history & every book of religion fall between my hands ..
    I believe that God create us & gives us the choice to obey or disobey his orders ..
    we have to build the earth in peace & worship him in ways he sent prophets to show us them
    maybe you refuse my logic ..but tell me ,the nature around you ,your skills ,brain ,body why do you have them ??
    to have joy & do nothing ??
    or to live & die with nobody cares about you ??
    or to eat ,drink & please your body all the time like animals ??
    of course nothing of this ..
    I know I'm existing here to work for my religion,country ..& to have fun & joy with my family ..I to improve my personality from time to time ..but never disobey my God & always follow & be under his order ..
    it's not hard if you make a balance ..
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2009
  11. Oct 28, 2009 #10
    Re: A Discussion of "Existence".

    The very nature of this thing is non disclosable..(spelling?)
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