A hard situation

  • Schools
  • Thread starter jamalkoiyess
  • Start date
  • #1
217
21
Hello PF,
I am from Lebanon and i have been accepted to AUB (our most important university here) in physics.
Now i haven't applied to any other university but we have our government university (Lebanese University) and there i can apply directly to physics with instant acceptance.
Now here is the problem :
AUB costs about 70 000$ for my bachelor and the rest is free.
The Lebanese University is totaly free.
I can also apply for engineering to USJ (another top university but not as good and french) or also to the LU but that would need an exam in July.
And my acceptance will be denied in AUB for physics if i do not pay 1000$ before 30th of June.
So now i am stuck i cannot leave the AUB and go for the engineering exams cause if i don't get accepted it will result in me doing nothing for a year and be accepted nowhere.
I like both engineering and physics and i can't take a decision on what to pursue unless i try one of them.
It should be also taken into consideration that in AUB i can transfer to engineering but not in LU.
So what should i choose? I have the financial capacity for AUB but why not choose the free one and keep the money? But here also i fear that the program is not as good.
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
84
11
Hello PF,
I am from Lebanon and i have been accepted to AUB (our most important university here) in physics.
Now i haven't applied to any other university but we have our government university (Lebanese University) and there i can apply directly to physics with instant acceptance.
Now here is the problem :
AUB costs about 70 000$ for my bachelor and the rest is free.
The Lebanese University is totaly free.
I can also apply for engineering to USJ (another top university but not as good and french) or also to the LU but that would need an exam in July.
And my acceptance will be denied in AUB for physics if i do not pay 1000$ before 30th of June.
So now i am stuck i cannot leave the AUB and go for the engineering exams cause if i don't get accepted it will result in me doing nothing for a year and be accepted nowhere.
I like both engineering and physics and i can't take a decision on what to pursue unless i try one of them.
It should be also taken into consideration that in AUB i can transfer to engineering but not in LU.
So what should i choose? I have the financial capacity for AUB but why not choose the free one and keep the money? But here also i fear that the program is not as good.

Dependent on if the physics course the lebanese uni covers everything in later years you want to study then id go for that one but I guess it depends on how much you need 70000$

As for engineering vs physics I dont really see why this is always a debate, firstly the subjects cover completely different things and if you want to be an engineer then you should do engineering but if you dont want to be one then dont study engineering
 
  • #3
217
21
Dependent on if the physics course the lebanese uni covers everything in later years you want to study then id go for that one but I guess it depends on how much you need 70000$

As for engineering vs physics I dont really see why this is always a debate, firstly the subjects cover completely different things and if you want to be an engineer then you should do engineering but if you dont want to be one then dont study engineering
thank you for your advice sir. Any other point of view is welcome.
 
  • #4
217
21
Dependent on if the physics course the lebanese uni covers everything in later years you want to study then id go for that one but I guess it depends on how much you need 70000$

As for engineering vs physics I dont really see why this is always a debate, firstly the subjects cover completely different things and if you want to be an engineer then you should do engineering but if you dont want to be one then dont study engineering
I forgot to mention that AUB is an american university and here i will have more opportunities to transfer to american universities in the US but the LU is more oriented to France and i am not that into going there.
 
  • #5
84
11
I forgot to mention that AUB is an american university and here i will have more opportunities to transfer to american universities in the US but the LU is more oriented to France and i am not that into going there.

Well only you can weigh up whether thats work 70000 to you.
 
  • #6
chiro
Science Advisor
4,797
133
Hey jamalkoiyess.

What do you plan on doing after university (At least what do you imagine doing)?
 
  • #7
217
21
Hey jamalkoiyess.

What do you plan on doing after university (At least what do you imagine doing)?

I would love a research job with some lecturing maybe. Actually today I payed for the AUB. So i am in AUB but i can change and welcome any advice
 
  • #8
micromass
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Insights Author
22,129
3,301
Why would anybody be so crazy to pay 70000$ for a university when they can get in a cheaper one?
 
  • #9
217
21
Why would anybody be so crazy to pay 70000$ for a university when they can get in a cheaper one?
1. I think that this university is better and has more connection internationally and it was one of the top 5 in the Middle East.(that's better for me since my goals are not here in Lebanon)
2. In this university i can switch easily to engineering or any other major from any other faculty which gives me an opportunity to switch if i ever found that physics was not my thing.
 
  • #10
micromass
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Insights Author
22,129
3,301
1. I think that this university is better and has more connection internationally and it was one of the top 5 in the Middle East.(that's better for me since my goals are not here in Lebanon)
2. In this university i can switch easily to engineering or any other major from any other faculty which gives me an opportunity to switch if i ever found that physics was not my thing.

I don't really think 70000$ is worth that, but it's your choice of course.
 
  • #11
217
21
I don't really think 70000$ is worth that, but it's your choice of course.
If in some world i was a genius somehow i would definitely choose the free because i would be intelligent and can do the same impact without the extra education level. But i am not even near being any genius so i took this choice to help me be better and stronger in my field.
 
  • #12
micromass
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Insights Author
22,129
3,301
If in some world i was a genius somehow i would definitely choose the free because i would be intelligent and can do the same impact without the extra education level. But i am not even near being any genius so i took this choice to help me be better and stronger in my field.

Strength of universities doesn't mean much. Definitely rankings are meaningless. Education is what you make of it: you can easily get a better education at a top 100 universities than somebody in a top 10 university if you put in the work and use all the opportunities. But again, if rankings are worth $70000, then that's ok. I just think it's a dumb choice.
 
  • #13
217
21
Strength of universities doesn't mean much. Definitely rankings are meaningless. Education is what you make of it: you can easily get a better education at a top 100 universities than somebody in a top 10 university if you put in the work and use all the opportunities. But again, if rankings are worth $70000, then that's ok. I just think it's a dumb choice.
Okay rankings are not that important but take into consideration also that AUB has a lot of developed labs and research centers. And also it has a Ph.D. program that the other university has not.
I am not trying to convince you here and i am sorry for taking your time but i know you are smart and have experience that can help me. Thank you.
 
  • #14
micromass
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Insights Author
22,129
3,301
Okay rankings are not that important but take into consideration also that AUB has a lot of developed labs and research centers. And also it has a Ph.D. program that the other university has not.
I am not trying to convince you here and i am sorry for taking your time but i know you are smart and have experience that can help me. Thank you.

It's not really all that relevant since you're not a PhD student.
 
  • #15
217
21
It's not really all that relevant since you're not a PhD student.
but i am aiming to become one.
 
  • #17
217
21
but you're not one.
So what ? I forget my goals just because i am not in them? What you are saying now is that if i am not in a Ph.D. i should not aim for it but how can i get in it if i do not go for it ?
 
  • #18
micromass
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Insights Author
22,129
3,301
So what ? I forget my goals just because i am not in them? What you are saying now is that if i am not in a Ph.D. i should not aim for it but how can i get in it if i do not go for it ?

I didn't say that at all. I just don't really see the benefit for you that a university has a PhD program. You need to do your undergrad first and then you can apply to PhD programs.
 
  • #19
217
21
I didn't say that at all. I just don't really see the benefit for you that a university has a PhD program. You need to do your undergrad first and then you can apply to PhD programs.
yeah so i thought if i was in the university that has the Ph.D. program it would be easier for me to get in and blend in afterwards.
 
  • #20
micromass
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Insights Author
22,129
3,301
yeah so i thought if i was in the university that has the Ph.D. program it would be easier for me to get in and blend in afterwards.

American universities don't like to take PhD students from their undergrad programs. Some universities like MIT by rule don't take in MIT undergrad students. You should check whether the same is true for your university.
 
  • #21
217
21
American universities don't like to take PhD students from their undergrad programs. Some universities like MIT by rule don't take in MIT undergrad students. You should check whether the same is true for your university.
Oh i didn't know this but i don'think it is true here anyways if i cannot be accepted here that would give me more push to study abroad which was my initial goal.
 
  • #22
Vanadium 50
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Education Advisor
2021 Award
28,056
12,592
Jamlkoiyess, it sounds like your mind is made up and you are looking for validation of a decision you have already made. If that isn't the case, you might ask yourself why you are arguing with people who point out issues with that plan?
 
  • #23
84
11
1. I think that this university is better and has more connection internationally and it was one of the top 5 in the Middle East.(that's better for me since my goals are not here in Lebanon)
2. In this university i can switch easily to engineering or any other major from any other faculty which gives me an opportunity to switch if i ever found that physics was not my thing.

Being connected internationally means very little to nothing for an undergrad student, when you apply for a phd supervisors are looking for how good you are as a student not what rank your university is
 
  • Like
Likes jamalkoiyess
  • #24
chiro
Science Advisor
4,797
133
If you are set on research then the advice I would give is to keep your grades up and look for any opportunities for research where you go to university.

Note that there are many opportunities for research across the world in many areas and other things like being able to communicate, fit into the university/research culture, and possibly even teach or assist with other duties are additional to where you went to university/college.

Some universities place particular emphasis on teaching versus research which is something else to factor in.

Also be aware that not every university is MIT or Harvard - many universities across the world exist with a lot of opportunities for research and don't get completely focused on the prestige argument because a one-dimensional rank can't represent everything about a department or research program - let alone a university so I'd recommend to try and keep an open mind about this sort of thing.
 
  • Like
Likes jamalkoiyess
  • #25
217
21
Jamlkoiyess, it sounds like your mind is made up and you are looking for validation of a decision you have already made. If that isn't the case, you might ask yourself why you are arguing with people who point out issues with that plan?

That is the case.
 
  • #26
217
21
If you are set on research then the advice I would give is to keep your grades up and look for any opportunities for research where you go to university.

Note that there are many opportunities for research across the world in many areas and other things like being able to communicate, fit into the university/research culture, and possibly even teach or assist with other duties are additional to where you went to university/college.

Some universities place particular emphasis on teaching versus research which is something else to factor in.

Also be aware that not every university is MIT or Harvard - many universities across the world exist with a lot of opportunities for research and don't get completely focused on the prestige argument because a one-dimensional rank can't represent everything about a department or research program - let alone a university so I'd recommend to try and keep an open mind about this sort of thing.

Thanks for the detailed information. About research, i can work in that university as a research assistant to get a discount off my tuition fees. (So i intend to do it) and also that ranking which put AUB 3rd in the middle east is not about the university as a whole but about the scientific research in this university. So it was a research ranking and that's why i am exited about it so much.
 
  • #27
micromass
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Insights Author
22,129
3,301
Thanks for the detailed information. About research, i can work in that university as a research assistant to get a discount off my tuition fees. (So i intend to do it) and also that ranking which put AUB 3rd in the middle east is not about the university as a whole but about the scientific research in this university. So it was a research ranking and that's why i am exited about it so much.

How in earth do research rankings matter so much? Here are some factors taken into account:
- Amount of publications per faculty member
- International faculty ratio
- How other academics perceive the university

Those are completely irrelevant to an undergrad.

Let me tell you something. I received my bachelors degree from an institution that isn't even in the rankings. Later, I took courses in a university that is seen as really top. This university really had world experts in the field I was studying. But guess what? The "worse" institution actually gave me a much better education. The professors really cared and challenged us. The world experts at the top university didn't give a crap about us.

Am I saying that a top university is always bad? Of course not. But I'm saying that a top university is not always much better and sometimes even worse than a university bad in rankings. But if you think that something completely irrelevant like research ranking is worth $70000 to you, then go ahead.
 
  • #28
micromass
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Homework Helper
Insights Author
22,129
3,301
That is the case.

You are looking for validation for a decision you already made? So this entire thread won't change your mind but will merely just make you feel good about yourself? Stop wasting our time, dude.
 
  • #29
217
21
You are looking for validation for a decision you already made? So this entire thread won't change your mind but will merely just make you feel good about yourself? Stop wasting our time, dude.

I started the discussion before taking the decision.
 
  • #30
84
11
I started the discussion before taking the decision.

Look
1. going to the 70000 uni wont increase your chances of getting a phd because they are high in the research rankings
2. The quality of teaching isnt indicated by any rankings so we cant say which will have better teaching
3. It is how good you are that will determine your chances of getting into a phd not your university
4. you can go to do a phd at any uni abroad from either of the unis you mentioned

If you want to go to the higher ranked uni and most likely waste the 70000 then thats okay but there isnt really any justifiable reason for the extra cost
 

Related Threads on A hard situation

  • Last Post
Replies
16
Views
5K
  • Last Post
Replies
10
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
1
Views
3K
  • Last Post
3
Replies
70
Views
11K
  • Last Post
Replies
5
Views
2K
  • Last Post
Replies
4
Views
2K
Replies
2
Views
4K
  • Last Post
2
Replies
38
Views
5K
  • Last Post
Replies
12
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
6
Views
3K
Top