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A limit to God's power?

  1. Jul 11, 2004 #1
    If there is a god I'm positive that everyone out there would agree that his power is infinite. BUT. If God truely has infinite power is it possible for God to purposely make an object so heavy that he himself cannot lift it?
  2. jcsd
  3. Jul 12, 2004 #2
    only IF s/he/it wanted to see what it felt like to be powerless!

    olde drunk
  4. Jul 12, 2004 #3
    Infinity is Finite.

    I tried singing "99 Bottles of Beer on the Wall". I got bored and quit, because the song took to long to finish, so I never experienced the song in it's entirety. When I tried to think of infinity and endless space, I never got there, the same thing happened.

    Infinity is finite. I'll prove it. Take for instance mass. Mass may be imaginatively split infinitely. The parts may be imaginatively split but physically they do not increase or decrease in mass, so parts are always finite. Is the universe infinite? Every finite piece can make up a finite whole. How could finite peices make an infinity? An infinite amount of peices. But try to imagine that. Infinity must be finite. Afterall, that's all I've experienced of it.
  5. Jul 12, 2004 #4
    If there is a god, most people would not accept it, so your point is not valid. How could you be positive about this, anyway?

    Infinite power is a meaningless catch phrase. What do you mean by it?

    If you mean that he has sufficient power to make an object blah blah, then yes. If you don't, then no.
  6. Jul 13, 2004 #5
    I woudl think this God could de-create anything he creates simply because he knows how to.......
  7. Jul 13, 2004 #6
    that only deals with physical parts. what if these parts are made of an unlimited form of energy that can be reduced, not divided??

    by the same token, what if the energy can join with other units of energy, an infinite number, and make infinite combinations and amounts??

    olde drunk
  8. Jul 13, 2004 #7


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    this whole debate is so stupid and every question has a self-stupifying answer like 'only if he wanted to see what its liek to be powerless'

    god doesnt exist. neither does hell/heaven/demons or any of that crap you were fed as a child. get a grip and see whats wrong with this world - religion.
  9. Jul 13, 2004 #8
    I think that there is finite matter in this universe but the matter itself is infinite in age.
  10. Jul 13, 2004 #9
  11. Jul 13, 2004 #10
    This Glass is Half Full

    This sounds like an appeal to ignorance. Am I correct?

    God cannot be proven to exist. God cannot be proven to not exist. Therefore, God doesn't exist.

    I can use the same premises to conclude the converse.

    God cannot be proven to exist. God cannot be proven to not exist. Therefore, God does exist.

    I think it's understood for convience to say God doesn't exist, but in terms of logic it appears to be an appeal to ignorance. Is there an argument that proves otherwise?

    Proof means representation of 'what exists'. Can I prove the word nothing represents 'empty' in the phrase 'the glass is half empty'?

    Think of all the space occuring around the objects in your immediate environment. Now imagine all things sensed dissapear. Something positive always comes to mind when this is attempted. Thoughts only represent positive things.

    I can prove the glass is half full, because I can compare it with a glass that is full.

    Can I prove the glass is half empty with a glass that has no water in it? If you say yes, what have you proven? I think only positive things are infered here. Here is a glass. And here is a glass that is half full.

    God doesn't exist means [negation]God. There must first be a sensed God to negate. And negation is based upon the property of displacement, since energy is neither created or destroyed.

    I agree that religious theories do create mental disorder and are harmful to society. The most popular religious theories today are political and mainstream television. Most of us traded a bible for prime time and politics.
  12. Jul 13, 2004 #11
    wouldn't a better conclusion be God's existence or non existence remains the subject of debate? ha ........I couldn't resist :wink:
  13. Jul 13, 2004 #12

    Infinity is not finite
    Infinity is limitless... things can be larger or smaller infinities in the way they grow, however they are not finite. Your proof is flawed in many ways an obvious way being that mass CANNOT be split forever. You could only "split" it to its basic constitutients aka strings for ur stringest or some other fundamental particle.
  14. Jul 13, 2004 #13
    Also on god being proven or disproved. I believe both are possible however plausable is a very different story. We may one day be able to develop a way to understand the universe to a point that the current state of our feeble minds would not be able to comprehend. And for the religous folks out there the proving of God is a lot easier story... say the rapture occurs well... that should be a clue or for whatever reason if you believe in God what would prevent him from comming down and enlightening us all of his existance.
  15. Jul 13, 2004 #14
    Why would God waste his time making a rock so heavy that he can't lift it? Anyway, I can tell you a lot about God, just ask sometime.
  16. Jul 13, 2004 #15
    tell me about God Yggdrasil.....I would like to know
  17. Jul 14, 2004 #16
    This is where the problem arises. Your paradox is with regard to omnipotence, but the use of the term "god" conjures up the concept of the creator of the Universe, or the gods of holy writings, &c.

    Yes, omnipotence is paradoxical, this has been known since the time of the ancient Greeks (possibly longer). However, not all gods were said to be omnipotent. For example, the God of the Bible stated His own limitations quite clearly in the Bible. The gods of Greek and Roman myth were inferior to the greatest god (Zeus and Jupiter, respectively) and yet even those great gods had limitations, which were born out throughout the legends. Actually, one of my favorite examples is the Egyptian god, Ra. Ra was the greatest of the gods, but "Ra" wasn't his real name. According to Egyptian tradition, knowing something's name gives you power over that thing. So, Ra kept his real name secret, so as not to allow anything to have power over him (though, of course, there was a legend wherein one of the goddesses learned of his real name, and caused all kinds of havoc :smile:).

    Anyway, the paradox is one of omnipotence, not of godship. Just thought I'd point that out to keep this from turning into a religious discussion.
  18. Jul 14, 2004 #17


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    It's funny that no one ever answers this question. The potential omnipotence of an intelligent creator is always defended by saying he would never do it. That wasn't the question. It was not asked whether or not he would do it. It was asked whether or not he could do it. Since you are apparently personally acquainted with this being, perhaps you can ask him for us.

    By the way, are you Dr. Courtney Brown or a devotee of his?
  19. Jul 14, 2004 #18
    I am sure God doesn't exist. But I also believe that God will exist.
  20. Jul 14, 2004 #19
    It's just one of those questions that will probably never be answered.

    If a tree falls....
  21. Jul 14, 2004 #20


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    What? We're four dimensional beings living in a four dimensional world, and we can build four-dimensional objects. What are these other beings (aside from God) that you're referring to?

    By the way, if God can create a rock that he couldn't lift, then it is conceivable that there could exist a task that he could not perform. This means he is not omnipotent, which I'm pretty sure was the point of this thread.
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