Was Ayn Rand in Favor of Profit Over Work?

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In summary, the conversation discusses the discrepancy between Ayn Rand's beliefs on work and profit. While some argue that she advocated work over profit, others assert that she placed more value on profit. A quote from Rand's novel Atlas Shrugged is provided, stating the importance of working for profit. The conversation then delved into the interpretation of this quote and the conflicting views on Rand's philosophy. Some criticize her understanding of economics and philosophy, while others defend her ideas. Ultimately, the conversation highlights the complex and controversial nature of Rand's beliefs.
  • #1
JRDunassigned
It is my understanding, after reading Ayn Rand's magnum opus Atlas Shrugged, that she advocated work - labor, menial and otherwise - over profit. However, I have heard many assertions in the media and in criticisms of Ayn Rand's philosophy (Objectivism) that she advocated profit over work.

This is a major discrepancy for me - profit is the tax made off of laborers once they've been paid their just dues. Profit doesn't require the profiteer to labor but to own. It is my opinion, after reading her work, that she valued earning your Salary, not earning a Profit, (that is not to say that she was against ownership, either).

Can anyone provide with me a quote from the author or her library - Ayn Rand's words - in which she advocates profit, not work?

In good spirits and questionable wit,
JRD, unassigned
 
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  • #2
JRDunassigned said:
It is my understanding, after reading Ayn Rand's magnum opus...

Don't worry, given how tedious the book is, it's easy to start skimming and miss things.

If one single businessman had had the courage, then, to say that he worked for nothing but his own profit -- and to say it proudly -- he would have saved the world.
-- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged
 
  • #3
I enjoyed the book a lot...

Furthermore I submit to you:

JoeDawg said:
Don't worry, given how tedious the book is, it's easy to start skimming and miss things.

If one single businessman had had the courage, then, to say that he worked for nothing but his own profit -- and to say it proudly -- he would have saved the world.
-- Ayn Rand, Atlas Shrugged

Working for a profit is a salary, unless you expect to do it for free?
 
  • #4
JRDunassigned said:
Furthermore I submit to you:
Sigh. I gave you exactly what you asked for... also

'Businessman' generally refers to a manager/owner, which is white-collar, as opposed to blue-collar, the latter being those who actually get their hands dirty, and you know, produce/make stuff.

'His profit' would mostly be from the work of other people. Paying workers the value of their work, would equal 'no profit' for a businessman.

And yes, Rand's writings are full of discrepancies. Her understanding of economics and philosophy were rudimentary, and her 'writing' was pulpy melodrama. Tends to go over well with young people, but most grow out of it.

The moral of Atlas Shrugged: If the woman you love, but have been lieing to for years, says something you completely disagree with, its your obligation to punch her in the face. Then she will love you even more.
 
  • #5
JoeDawg said:
Sigh. I gave you exactly what you asked for... also

'Businessman' generally refers to a manager/owner, which is white-collar, as opposed to blue-collar, the latter being those who actually get their hands dirty, and you know, produce/make stuff.

'His profit' would mostly be from the work of other people. Paying workers the value of their work, would equal 'no profit' for a businessman.

And yes, Rand's writings are full of discrepancies. Her understanding of economics and philosophy were rudimentary, and her 'writing' was pulpy melodrama. Tends to go over well with young people, but most grow out of it.

The moral of Atlas Shrugged: If the woman you love, but have been lieing to for years, says something you completely disagree with, its your obligation to punch her in the face. Then she will love you even more.

I do not know why you are approaching the point so apathetically. What you gave me was a quote that said you should do work for profit. Also, all of the assertions you submitted were anecdotal. If you're not going to provide any basis of factual evidence for them, disregard the topic as rudimentary and melodramatic and leave it be.

The love story of Atlas Shrugged was a superficial examination of what Rand believed real love should feel like, a topic I'm not bringing up here, and your summation of the moral seems more akin to pulpy melodramatics than anything I read in the story.

Also, Rand has been accused of stealing Marx's idea on the highest and lowest echelons of society. There is no place for those apathetic charity collectors who refuse to labor, and there is no place for the abusive taxers of salary so called white collar workers. So your assertion that your original quote shows an obvious value of profit over work is at best an obvious misinterpretation.

You could have at least brought up the point that once the originator of an idea that springs into a company dies, a slow degradation of meaning to the creators morals and ideals ensues, leading to the eventual collapse of a company, spread across an economy that causes the collapse of a society.

Please take the topic more serious or disregard it altogether.
 
  • #6
JRDunassigned said:
I do not know why you are approaching the point so apathetically.

The quote very clearly puts the value on profit, not on work. You can interpret it anyway you like, but its very easily interpreted the way I stated.

So 'misinterpretation' or not, you have your answer. The fact you have found a different way to interpret her words doesn't change the obvious emphasis in that quote. Nor does it change the way many of her followers view profit.

And as for my approach. Rand is to philosophy, what L. Ron Hubbard was to psychology. A self-important, self-help guru, who inspired a cult of personality. Her ideas were derivative, unoriginal and juvenile.

If you are serious about philosophy, there are much... much better things to read. Rand is really not a serious topic.
 
  • #7
JoeDawg said:
'His profit' would mostly be from the work of other people. Paying workers the value of their work, would equal 'no profit' for a businessman.
No, his profit would mostly be from the value of his entrepenurism. Rand's basic point is that the worker needs the entrepreneur much more than vice versa. The workers cannot pay him the value of his innovation up front, his profit is their installment plan.

Also, (this is purely anectdotal, but) all of the entrepenuers that I personally know work much harder than any of their workers, in addition to providing the innovation and taking the risk.
 
  • #8
DaleSpam said:
No, his profit would mostly be from the value of his entrepenurism.
And who determines the value of "entrepeneurism"?
Let me guess... the businessman.

Equating 'businessman' with 'innovator' is laughable.
But since we are getting anecdotal. Most innovators I know are horrible at business. That is, most people with the talent for creating things, spend their time and effort doing just that. 'Business' is mostly about raising capital and managing costs and inventory, and reselling other people's ideas, its not about innovation. Scientists and artists innovate, businessmen on good days are symbiotic with innovators, but in a lot of cases are more parasitic.

Rand's fantasy world doesn't describe reality any more than Marx's fantasy world did.
Thus we have the 'major discrepancy'.
 
  • #9
JoeDawg said:
And who determines the value of "entrepeneurism"?
Let me guess... the businessman.
The market, obviously.
JoeDawg said:
Equating 'businessman' with 'innovator' is laughable.
But since we are getting anecdotal. Most innovators I know are horrible at business. That is, most people with the talent for creating things, spend their time and effort doing just that. 'Business' is mostly about raising capital and managing costs and inventory, and reselling other people's ideas, its not about innovation. Scientists and artists innovate, businessmen on good days are symbiotic with innovators, but in a lot of cases are more parasitic.
Well, my anectdotal experience is very different from yours; I don't personally know any parasitic businessman/innovator relationships. Most of the innovators I know are smart enough to get out of such a relationship and find a mutually beneficial one; maybe your experience is more heavily weighted towards artists (mine is heavily weighted towards engineers). But in any case it is clear that Rand was writing about people who were both innovative and entrepenurial as individuals; that was her ideal protagonist.
JoeDawg said:
Rand's fantasy world doesn't describe reality any more than Marx's fantasy world did.
Thus we have the 'major discrepancy'.
Agreed, that is why it is fiction. Too bad Marx didn't have the same honesty.
 
  • #10
DaleSpam said:
The market, obviously.
Like I said, fantasy.

The more natural, and tried and true method, is pure law of the jungle natural selection. But the poor businessmen tend to end up with their heads on spikes when those sorts of market forces are let loose.

Well, my anectdotal experience is very different from yours; I don't personally know any
http://xkcd.com/664/" [Broken]

Well... then you're either very lucky, or you're a businessman.
(mine is heavily weighted towards engineers).
Oh, well then, www.dilbert.com
Too bad Marx didn't have the same honesty.
Being wrong and being dishonest are two different things...
 
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  • #11
JoeDawg said:
Well... then you're either very lucky, or you're a businessman.
I am an engineer so I guess I am very lucky then. Or it could equally be that you are very unlucky. Or somewhere in between with my experience being slightly better than normal and yours being slightly worse. That is the core problem with anecdotal evidence, but I don't know of any scientific studies of the topic.
 
  • #12
DaleSpam said:
I am an engineer so I guess I am very lucky then.
Given the popularity of Dilbert amongst engineers, I would say that's a good guess.
 

1. Was Ayn Rand against the concept of work?

No, Ayn Rand was not against the concept of work. In fact, she believed that work is a necessary and noble activity that allows individuals to use their mind and abilities to create value and improve their lives.

2. Did Ayn Rand prioritize profit over the value of work?

No, Ayn Rand did not prioritize profit over the value of work. She believed that work is the source of all wealth and that individuals should be rewarded for their efforts and achievements through the concept of profit.

3. Did Ayn Rand believe that profit is the only motivator for work?

No, Ayn Rand did not believe that profit is the only motivator for work. She believed that individuals should be motivated by their own ambitions and desire for personal success, rather than external factors such as profit.

4. Did Ayn Rand support the exploitation of workers for profit?

No, Ayn Rand did not support the exploitation of workers for profit. She believed in a free market system where individuals are free to negotiate their own terms of employment and where both parties benefit from the exchange of labor for compensation.

5. Did Ayn Rand view profit as the ultimate goal of work?

No, Ayn Rand did not view profit as the ultimate goal of work. She believed that the ultimate goal of work is the creation of value and the improvement of one's own life, and that profit is a natural consequence of this pursuit.

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