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A monkey with a typewriter.

  1. Feb 16, 2012 #1
    I've been fooling around with the orbits of the inner planets. I've drawn a circle on the orbit of Mars, then reduced it by .9 increments. There isn't a plamet on every reducing circle, but eventually I pick up the orbits of Earth, Venus and Mercury with some accuracy.

    Has anyone heard of that before?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 16, 2012 #2

    Drakkith

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    It's just chance. Increase your step size and your accuracy will fall.
     
  4. Feb 16, 2012 #3

    Borek

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    Makes me think about Titius–Bode law. Not that I suggest anything, more of a random thought.
     
  5. Feb 17, 2012 #4
    Well the Titius Bode formula was responsible for the discovery of Uranus by calculating where it would be, as I recall, but Neptune didn't fit. Looks like this ratio does though.

    Here's a chart of Saturn, Uranus and Neptune with a set of circles imposed. I believe the original chart is accurate and the circles, computer drawn, are also accurate. it looks to me as if Uranus is bridging two of the circles. Half of it's orbit is aligned to one circle then the other half jumps to another. Orbital migration perhaps?

    The orbital charts can be found here
    http://calgary.rasc.ca/orbits.htm

    I guess I'll have a look at Pluto next then zoom into the Sun. Hope I'm not using too much bandwidth.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2012
  6. Feb 18, 2012 #5
    Well that's a good fit. If I take the orbit of Pluto and reduce it by 90% twice, the width of the ellipse corresponds with the diameter of the Neptunian orbit.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2012
  7. Feb 18, 2012 #6
    Here's the ratio between Saturn and Jupiter...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2012
  8. Feb 19, 2012 #7

    Drakkith

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    What are you trying to do exactly?
     
  9. Feb 19, 2012 #8
    Jupiter to Mars...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2012
  10. Feb 19, 2012 #9
    What am I trying to do exactly? Titius Bode set out to find an underlying geometry in the solar system from which they hoped to understand solar system formation.

    Here are the inner orbits. The size fit between the .9 ratio circles and the actual orbits is exact. One thing about.9 ratio circles, if I stack a three ring sequence together centered and I move the middle circle unti it touches the inner circle, it will also touch the outer circle while leaving the other two circles in the same position. By stacking the circles in this way, both the orbital size and heliocentricity of our solar system planetary orbits can be plotted. The inference is that in the very early solar system, a set of rings formed around the Sun. Each ring would have been an energy ring, a torus as per the twisted rope rings of Neptune. Once formed, the rings were not position stable and they slid aroumd until they hit each other whereupon they latched in position to form a grid. The planets then formed on some of the tori.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2012
  11. Feb 20, 2012 #10
    But what would create a set of rings of this type?
    If you were to take a sheet of paper and you were to draw a spiral from the center point to the edge, and then draw another spiral back to the center- without changing your clockwise or anti-clockwise direction - you'll find that you can't get back to the center without crossing the line of your original spiral. So if the first spiral represents the outward path of energy to the edge of the solar system, and the second spiral represents the inward path, then the spirals must be inverse to each other.
    If the spirals represent the twisted electromagnetic field of the solar system, then the amount of energy where the spirals cross will be greater than where they don't. If the entire field is filled in with spirals, the points at which the inverse spirals intersect will form circles.

    There is one logarithmic spiral that will generate a set of circles that match .9 ratio circles and so will therefore match the planetary orbits if the orbits were to be aligned dead center to the sun. They're not, and yet the logarithmic spiral still picks them out with precision. Notably, the inner planets are plotted with only four spirals which may indicate main field lines within the system. The spirals will be moving inward and outward respectively within their magnetic hemispheres while separated by the neutral balance sheet and this may give rise to an effect a bit like the rubbing of plasticene between the palms of the hands.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2012
  12. Feb 20, 2012 #11

    Drakkith

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    What does "outward path of energy" mean? I am unaware of anything such as this.

    What? Are you referring to the Sun's magnetic field? That's the strongest EM field in the solar system.

    How precise are we talking about here?

    Field lines for what?

    Can you elaborate?
     
  13. Feb 21, 2012 #12
    Drakkith,

    The sun's magnetosphere is divided into two hemispheres. In one, energy moves outwards to the heliopause while in the other, energy moves inward to the Sun. It is accepted that the EM field is twisted into a spiral by the Sun's rotation, known as the Parker field. There are some who base the shape of the spiral on the solar wind and there are others who suspect that there is an underlying spiral based more on planetary formation than solar wind disbursement.

    Yes I am. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

    As precise as our ability to measure the actual orbits.

    For the EM field. This is also generally accepted.

    This is a tough scenario to visualize. Imagine two sets of spirals, inverse to each other, situated above and below the equatorial neutral balance sheet. Where the inverse spirals become proximate, a zone of greater charge, shaped as a circle, will occur. As all energy within the system carries twist force, the circle becomes expressed as a twisted circular rope of energy.
     
  14. Feb 21, 2012 #13

    Drakkith

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    Sorry, I don't understand what you mean by "energy moves outwards" and "energy moves inwards", and what this has to do with planetary orbits.
    What energy are we talking about and how is it moving anywhere?
     
  15. Feb 22, 2012 #14
    When I put four spirals together to plot the inner solar system planets, I get a distinctive shape. Comparing this shape with the Spirograph planetary nebula I find a match. I then assume that I am looking at a perimeter of a solar system from a plan view and look for corroborating features.
    Around the outer edge I note unbroken multi-stranded twisted braid. Heliopause, I'm thinking. There is no overall spiral grid here though, and no set of circles. Instead, there is what appears to be a network of tubes which are running from the star to the edge with what appear to be inlet ports near the star. It looks then, as if the energy field has developed a transmission system from the star to the perimeter. A network of vortex tubes perhaps.

    Upon examination of the end of this object, I note a coil of twisted tube like an ear on the end of a lemon. Unlike most of the planetary nebulae, this system does not appear to be blasted to bits so I conclude that here we have a solar system that has experienced an explosion but has not burst the outer electromagnetic bubble. This is perhaps why the whitish emission at the center has not disbursed - it is sitting just underneath the canopy. If there were to be a further decent stella emission, I can imagine one might find corkscrew shaped emissions from the ears.

    Be that as it may, the spirals are the same as those indicated in our own solar system which then brings on the possiblity that this particular spiral shape may be universal. Something along the lines of the inverse square law but as applied to a twisted field.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2012
  16. Feb 22, 2012 #15

    Drakkith

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    What you are looking at are not "vortex tubes" but simply a result of non-uniform density in the gas and dust. The outer edge is simply the boundary of the inital outburst of gas from the star as it began to turn into a white dwarf.

    Planetary nebulas are a result of the star expelling gas and dust from its outer atmosphere. I don't know if I would call this an explosion or not. Over time the gas and dust will move outward into the interstellar medium and will eventually stop emitting light. I don't know of any "electromagnetic bubble" that could burst. That doesn't really seem to make alot of sense to me.

    The whitish emission is the white dwarf stellar remnant. It will eventually cool down over billions of years and stop emitting light as well.
     
  17. Feb 23, 2012 #16
    If you were to draw a circle on a sheet of paper and place a dot at the center, then allow the circle to represent the equator of a planet, and the dot to represent a pole. If a spiral is drawn into the center, this will represent ingoing energy to the pole as per a spherical spiral. If a polar emission spiral is drawn emanating outwards from the pole, then the spherical spiral and the polar spiral will be inverse to each other.

    In the image of the Mars pole attached, there are a set of inverse spirals contained within the shape of the rock. Conclusion: at the time of it's formation, the planet was a sphere of molten rock and what we see is the action of outgoing energy from the pole against ingoing energy coiling around the sphere which has been fossilized as the planet cooled. Molten rock
    forms a powerful electromagnetic field which diminishes as the rock cools and it would appear that there was enough EM energy operating here to create this rock formation. The polar area is characterised by spiral shaped terraces further indicating the action of an out-bound polar spiral.
     
  18. Feb 23, 2012 #17
    Attachment...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 1, 2012
  19. Feb 23, 2012 #18
    Which often leads to the well-known quip: "There are rings around Uranus."
     
  20. Feb 23, 2012 #19

    Drakkith

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    What I mean is that when you say "Energy is moving in", it doesn't make any sense, as energy is not something that just flows on its own, it is a property of light and matter.

    What? None of this makes any sense. To my knowledge molten rock does not create an EM field, and EM fields don't form mountains. To you have any references to support this?
     
  21. Feb 23, 2012 #20
    this thread seems like it's full of a bunch of hooey...
     
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