News A National Catastrophe

Ivan Seeking

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Science Advisor
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As linked in the thread referenced in the op:

According to House Minority Leader John Boehner, and Senior Senator and Chairman of the Senate Banking Committee, Chris Dodd: The situation is so dire that it cannot be publically discussed.
 
Furthermore, are you suggesting that McCain is taking advantage of this and stoking the fires of fear when there is no emergency?

I have NEVER seen a candidate announce the suspension of his campaign. Was this just showboating by a con? Was McCain blowing smoke out of rear by saying that he would fire the chairman of the SEC [which he can't do, btw] Is that what we are to conclude from your post?
Local conservative radio talk show hosts John & Ken described him (sarcasticly) as "riding in on his white horse" and said he isn't known for experience in dealing with money save for his involvement in the Keating Five scandal. They also tear Palin apart on a daily basis. Yet somehow, for some reason, they still plan on voting for McCain if for anyone.
 
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This is a must read for anyone concerned about the current economic crisis. Warren Buffet disclosed this information to his shareholders back in May...

http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/derivatives-new-ticking-time-bomb/story.aspx?guid={B9E54A5D-4796-4D0D-AC9E-D9124B59D436}

This week, the SEC chairman testified in Congress and specified that $60 to $183 TRILLION in derivates is at risk and unregulated.
 
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This is also a must read regarding the Lehman failure and the concern over derivates last week...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080914/bs_nm/lehman_specialsession_dc_3 [Broken]

Very Important!
 
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OmCheeto

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This is also a must read regarding the Lehman failure and the concern over derivates last week...

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080914/bs_nm/lehman_specialsession_dc_3 [Broken]

Very Important!
Wow. Is that some kind of hacker introduced number?

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080914/bs_nm/lehman_specialsession_dc_3 [Broken]
NEW YORK (Reuters) - A rare emergency trading session opened Sunday afternoon to allow Wall Street dealers in the $455 trillion derivatives market reduce their exposure to a potential bankruptcy filing by Lehman Brothers.
4.55E+14 dollars divided by 6.0E+9 humans = $75,833.33 per human.

Aren't 3 out of 6 earthlings making about $100 a year?

Did someone overextend their futures somewhere in outer Mongolia, or Siberia? Or did someone hedge their funds on Jupiter real estate.

$455,000,000,000,000.00! Ah! hahahahahahaha!

Silly humans.....
 
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mheslep

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Wow. Is that some kind of hacker introduced number?



4.55E+14 dollars divided by 6.0E+9 humans = $75,833.33 per human.

Aren't 3 out of 6 earthlings making about $100 a year?

Did someone overextend their futures somewhere in outer Mongolia, or Siberia? Or did someone hedge their funds on Jupiter real estate.

$455,000,000,000,000.00! Ah! hahahahahahaha!

Silly humans.....
That is a volume of transactions figure, not a debt figure that you can spread over the population.
 

Art

That is a volume of transactions figure, not a debt figure that you can spread over the population.
I read recently global debt is $100 trillion and global GDP is $33 trillion.
 
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The basic concerns about derivatives are 1.) huge numbers, 2.) often done in private, 3.) controlled (generally) by small groups of people, 4.) NOBODY outside of their group REALLY understands them...including the Fed or SEC chairs...certainly not Congress.

Compare this to the scientific community...nobody hands over unlimited resources to a few researchers (who do something nobody else understands) without asking them what they are doing and keeping them accountable.

Nobody wants oversight...but if you read the Buffet article...the combined real estate value of the entire world is only $75 Trillion.
 

OmCheeto

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That is a volume of transactions figure, not a debt figure that you can spread over the population.
Well then DeFazio's idea is starting to make sense.

1/4 of 1% on $4.55E+14 = $1.14 trillion / year.

hmmm... just enough to bail us out.

A sales tax on the uber-rich.

And has the idea of taxing wealth been discussed? Or am I being a communist left wing liberal for even bringing it up?

hmmm... maybe not:
http://www.taxprophet.com/faq/991128.htm [Broken]
1999
Donald Trump’s Wealth Tax Proposal

Billionaire Donald Trump, a prospective Reform Party candidate, has dropped a political bomb on his fellow tycoons: He plans to tax their accumulated wealth and pay off the National Debt in a single year!

Trump has called for a one-time 14.25 percent tax on the net worth of individuals and trusts worth $10 million or more. Trump says this would generate $5.7 trillion in new taxes which would then be used to eliminate the National Debt.
Well I guess that would have been a moot tax given that the debt is now around $9 trillion+. And it probably would have scared all the rich people away to Switzerland or somewhere.

Perhaps we should make it a permanent, less drastic pill.
I have to pay property taxes. Why shouldn't the super-rich have to do the same?

Say 0.5% of anyone worth over $10 million, 0.75% over $100 million, and 1% for those over a billion. With no loopholes of course.

Everyone in the Forbes 400 is worth over a billion, with a net worth of $1.57 trillion, so 1% of that per year would be $15.7 billion, which is half of their combined wealth increase last year, which translates to a 50% tax bracket, which makes me a commie left wing liberal..... Donald! What were we thinking!?

But anyways, I think these ideas may make the markets more "efficient" in the long run.
 
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We need to create an environment that attracts investment into a competitive manufacturing base at home. Before someone says it, manufacturing doesn't have to mean pollution.

Our companies need to quit thinking in 90 day increments and start thinking long term.

Just imagine if after WWII, we (yes WE THE PEOPLE) had not just rebuilt the German and Japanese industrial complex...but retained an equity stake. Instead, corporate America loaned them money and received a small return...whoopee!

We're making the same mistake in Iraq...they (the new Iraqui leadership) need to pay for our help...they have resources...or they need to accept the responsibility of governance. We can't afford to be there. Please don't tell me we shouldn't have gone in or they wouldn't have a problem...if we didn't go in...they wouldn't even BE the leadership.

I've strayed off point. The Chinese think in 250 year increments. Big surprise, the current strategy is to create business at any cost...agree to produce anything for less...and become the only manufacturer.

Guess what comes next? Remember supply and demand?

To make things worse...now we rely on them to fund our (Government) operations...what's the current debt number $500,000,000,000?

One of these days they're going to say...NO...your new rate is 12% or 15% or 20%...then what will we do...sell nukes?

We have a chance to turn things around...we can't wait 4 more years or until the next big crisis comes along...we need decisive leadership RIGHT NOW. I think McCain has the most potential...I also think Obama can be VERY helpful to the country if he goes back to Washington and fights for what he believes in...he's young and will have another chance...he's not ready.
 

turbo

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We have a chance to turn things around...we can't wait 4 more years or until the next big crisis comes along...we need decisive leadership RIGHT NOW. I think McCain has the most potential...I also think Obama can be VERY helpful to the country if he goes back to Washington and fights for what he believes in...he's young and will have another chance...he's not ready.
McCain won't fix the economy. It's people like him and his close buddy Phil Gramm that stripped out all the safeguards and oversight over the financial markets that engineered this problem. McCain has been part of the problem since well before the Keating 5 debacle came to light, and he has not changed one bit. Electing McCain to "fix" the economy is ridiculous. He and Gramm and their buddies are NOT conservatives by any stretch of the imagination - they are radical neo-cons who de-regulated us into this mess. Don't listen to what McCain says - pay attention to what he has done.
 
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The problem with Obama is he STILL wants to increase spending.
 

LowlyPion

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The problem with Obama is he STILL wants to increase spending.
He's already on the record suggesting that the $700B plan would cause some delay of implementing programs. Like Clinton before him he seems to have a much firmer grasp of understanding the need to reduce the deficit than the tax-reduction, anti-regulation oversight, spend like drunken sailor Republicans.

You'll never hear McCain talking about PayGo with his devotion to un-taxing the rich.
 

turbo

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The problem with Obama is he STILL wants to increase spending.
Don't listen to campaign talk unless you're willing to dig into the background of the statements. Every candidate WILL increase spending in some programs. You can either vote for someone who will increase federal revenues to cover the spending, or you can vote for someone who will increase spending, reduce revenues by giving tax breaks to the wealthy, and borrowing money from China et al, to finance the spending. The former is derided as "tax and spend" by neo-cons, who prefer to "borrow and spend" increasing the deficit and the national debt while rewarding their friends. When Clinton left office, there was a surplus. Where's the surplus now?
 

OmCheeto

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Don't listen to what McCain says - pay attention to what he has done.
Why you dirty rotten bull-goose loony scoundrel.....

That was my line:

I posted my research of Obama's voting record on key bills last month in the https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=1572557&postcount=49" thread. He voted the same way I would have. He therefore represents my values. I will therefore vote for him, regardless of what he says. Because it's been my experience that in order to get elected, all successful politicians will say whatever they think you want to hear.

Hence, I never listen to any of them.
Except for the debate yesterday. I figured I should at least know what our next president sounds like. :blushing:
 
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I'll say it again...we can't think in 90 day terms anymore...and we also can't make everyone happy, fat and comfortable.

The world is tired of our arrogance and many are enjoying our struggle.

We've lowered our educational standards (and disguised it as an improvement) in the name of equality. In the mean time, our graduate programs are filled with Chinese (mostly) and other foreigners. What US citizen are we helping (even with a BA/BS) when the only job we prepare them for is a retail sales or management training position? We need HIGHER educational standards...and we need safe schools (not war zones) where students have a chance to learn. Search career builder or monster...lots of commission only sales jobs for recent graduates.

We build new schools that we can't afford to operate (prisons also)...and staff them with teachers that...aren't all really great...for too many teachers - GETTING the job was the goal.

We reward unwed mothers for having children and emancipate teen mothers. We penalize low income people who want to work, but lose benefits if they earn too much.

To cite a specific example of waste...in my state...a case worker can decide that a hospital located 150 miles away (Cleveland Clinic for example) is better than the local hospital (that's in the same SuperMed system as Cleve Clinic)...arrange a taxi ride at 8 AM for a 10:00 appointment, have the taxi wait all day and return the person from the distant (very expensive Cleve Clinic) hospital in the afternoon. That same case worker can decide it isn't convenient for this person to take public transportation (even though it picks up a block from their home and drops off at the door of the employer) to work in a call center paying $8/hr...4 hour shift...and arrange for taxi service to and from for as long as the person "requires" assistance.

We also penalize married couples.

We have an estimated 31% fraud rate in our current government medical program...and want to expand it. We allow predatory lending and marketing practices (nursing home admission tactics are deplorable) against our senior citizens.

We allow food stamps to be used to pay for overpriced (target marketed) brand names instead of generic or (pre-negotiated rates) discounted brands...how much money could be saved if food manufacturers had to bid on food stamp participation.

We allow technologies to be suppressed and block responsible US companies from drilling in places where un-responsible foreign companies are more than happy to fill the void. I don't trust T. Boone Pickens too much (he definitely has something to gain) but he's right about fueling trucks with natural gas. Most truck stops are in remote areas...near gas wells and pipelines, and trucks have storage space for tanks. The investment to operate passenger cars in this manner is too investment intensive. Back on point, we have an ample gasoline supply...no shortages of gasoline...the problem is the "middle of the barrel"...we need to use less diesel and the price of gas will fall drastically.

There is WASTE everywhere.

I recently wrote to my Governor to ask how much money our state spends per year cutting the grass along the freeway system. I don't want anyone to lose their job...I suggested they save the fuel, let the grass grow and use the labor to instead plant trees and erect windmills. If you think I'm strange...take a look at the wild flowers on the outside of the freeway and on the hillsides...where they don't cut...much nicer to look at than a burned out brown yard. I figure the highway system is already (there and ugly) so why not add some windmills and wires and hide them with flowers and trees?

We can blame the problems on presidents, congress, Wall Street...the system...but WE THE PEOPLE need to start thinking for ourselves and ultimately hold our elected politicians accountable.

If someone promises to do something...they need to do it! If they don't...(to quote Glenn Beck) "get out the pitchforks".

To reiterate, my problem with Obama is that he STILL wants to increase spending...McCain CLAIMS he now understands spending must be cut.

Obama said he'll try to spend (if he can find the money)...McCain said he'll try to make cuts.

If neither can be trusted at their word...then we need to find a way to keep them accountable.

How about public spankings...or maybe we should install some of those old wooden arm/head shackles on the steps of the Capitol...so the citizens can speak to any politicians who lie...in person.

Just a thought.
 
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The ones who will suffer in this are the main street and side street people. I have a friend who has one of those sub prime loans and he now works three jobs, one as an engineer, to try and meet his mortgage payment, which continues to rise. This bill needs to fix interest rates and limit duration and set limits for any non fixed rate loans to reasonable levels. Anything else is legalized loan sharking and that is the kind of banking that caused this.

In my opinion, this would work itself out, but it would end up hurting those who can least afford it, the taxpayers.
 
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I too have friends in trouble.

My closest friend of 40 years has, since 911, lost a total of 5 car wash and restaurant businesses.

The reasons vary (I'm familiar because I helped him analyze the numbers)...38% same store slow down in sales, higher minimum wages, 58% cumulative increase on utilities, 42% cumulative increase on major items cost of goods sold, health insurance cost increase of 89%, 2 parcels were owned by (2 different) investors and were both sold out from under him when the property could not be developed to it's full potential...lease allowed for cancellation (bad attorney and the "investor" was his partners (on that location) father...supposed to be able to trust him) in the event of sale of property at new owners option. New owner tried to double the rent.

Another property involved a pre-engineered modular building that had to be moved when the plaza was sold to the largest importer of Chinese goods in the world. The list goes on and on and on.

Somehow he's managed to stay in his home (although his mortgage is with EMC/Bear Stearns and is currently interest only...future unclear but somehow he's only one month behind) and live off of credit cards between opportunities. He has never quit...he's very inspirational to me.

He does consulting work, sells health and life insurance, does tax recovery work, works part time at Home Depot selling water systems, works part time on weekends counting inventory. and is a bird dog (finds businesses) for about 2 to 3 manufacturing companies, he's also trying to sell his car wash and restaurant equipment on ebay...but no buyers...just non-paying bidders and about $500 in fees at last gripe. His wife is also trying...2 degrees and all she can find is part time teaching positions...no full time contracts OR BENEFITS...she's an English teacher...and doesn't coach (except for free in the community soccer league).

Aside from the lease agreement oversight (that he depended upon the lawyer and partner's father)...NONE OF THIS HAS BEEN HIS FAULT...he's a GOOD guy, the first to help everyone, he's a professional restaurant executive and ran a good business model. His locations were sharp, people well trained food or services good, everything reasonably priced (hot dogs $.89...had to raise to $.99 after absorbing 100% cost increase...sales dropped 50% as a result), had sustained 5% local advertising and cross promotion...the guy knows his business...now he's working (I count 8 jobs total) to keep a roof over his wife and 4 children.

This guy should be employable (not considered over-qualified - translation costs too much). He made over $100,000 per year back in 1982 as a restaurant chain executive running hundreds of locations and now he's busted out...and will have to sell his home at a loss and move...if he can find a decent paying job somewhere. He said he might move to Minnesota (IF they offer him a job...he's over qualified) and work for Burger King...$40,000 to start on a fast track to District Manager program running 3 or 4 locations...after 1 year $60,000...but he'll lose a minimum $150,000 on his house and they won't help with the move.

He voted for Kerry and Gore and despises Bush (Clinton(s) too...blames NAFTA and Hillary ties to (that big retail company prospering in China) for a lot of our problems...(I agree).

He has a McCain sign in his yard...doesn't think Obama is qualified (or Palin as far as that goes). I agree again.
 

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