# A question about rounded motion

firstly i want to say this is my first post and english isn't my first language. so im very sorry about mistakes.(spelling etc.)

think a man, he's about 80kg. he is standing on machine that calculates your weight(from now on i call it mtcyw) later he get a thing which is 5kg and tied up a rope. he gets on the mtcyw and mtcyw shows 85kg. this is simple.. now, what if man swinging the thing with rope around his head while on mtcyw ? mtcyw shows under 85kg? or shows 85kg.
i have no idea with this question and teacher asked me the prove with details and not just the answer, so if you help me i will be so happy.

there is a sketch i made with my super awesome drawing skills;
http://img20.imageshack.us/i/55035215.jpg/" [Broken]

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Doc Al
Mentor
Does he swing it in a horizontal or a vertical circle?

Hint: What forces act on the man? In what direction do they act? Consider how the tension in the rope might affect the scale reading.

hight of the thing is never changing.

Doc Al
Mentor
What vertical component of force does the rope exert on the man?

Yes it effects. Everything effects, like in real life.

HallsofIvy
Homework Helper
Doc Al did not ask if the swinging weight affects anything. He asked what is the vertical component of force exerted by the rope on the man- a specific number.

sorry, i understand now. i dont know what is the value of the force, i dont want an spesific answer anyway. all i want to learn is it be the same(weight), or less.

Doc Al
Mentor
Do this:

Draw a force diagram for the 5kg mass showing all forces acting on it. (Only two forces act on it.) What direction is it accelerating? What's the net vertical force on it?

Draw a force diagram for the man, showing all forces acting on him. See what you can conclude.

sorry again, as i said my eng is very bad. i dont understand you want the diagram to better understand my question?, or you saying drawing a diagram helps me to solve my problem?

Doc Al
Mentor
or you saying drawing a diagram helps me to solve my problem?
That's what I'm saying. For you to solve the problem, you need to draw a diagram (or two). Whenever you are dealing with forces, it's usually a good idea to draw yourself a diagram.

(I believe I understand the problem very clearly. You want to know how the scale reading will change if he starts swinging that mass in a horizontal circle. )

i think when swinging the rope we have to give more pressure to arm then just holding the hope. and nothing is just raises something must be down to raise other thing. they teached us that. when im spending more energy the things force on the groun must be down. so, it will be 80>total weight>85 right?

Doc Al
Mentor
so, it will be 80>total weight>85 right?
No, not right. You need to examine the forces acting on the mass. For example, say the swinging rope makes an angle of 45 degrees with the vertical (or you can just call the angle θ). Draw a diagram of the forces acting on the mass. Is the mass accelerating? What's the net vertical force on the mass?

i think about it and drawing a diagram really helped me and i found that the thing doesn't have a vertical force that effects on arm. only horizental force. so it will be 80. am i right?

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Doc Al
Mentor
i think about it and drawing a diagram really helped me and i found that the thing doesn't have a vertical force that effects on arm. only horizental force. so it will be 80. am i right?
No. The man exerts a force on the rope that has both horizontal and vertical components. After all, the swinging mass has no vertical acceleration, thus something must be holding it up!

thus something must be holding it up!
ok. but how can the rope has vertical force on the man? its horizontal.

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Doc Al
Mentor
ok. but how can the rope has vertical force on the man? its horizontal.
Ah, but it cannot be perfectly horizontal. It must be angled downward, since it has to support the weight of the mass. The faster you swing the mass, the more horizontal the rope becomes, but it never is completely horizontal.

yes. i understand but when i say its be 80>x>85 you said its wrong?

Doc Al
Mentor
yes. i understand but when i say its be 80>x>85 you said its wrong?

but it cant be stay same right?

Doc Al
Mentor
but it cant be stay same right?
What vertical force does the man exert on the rope?

there is no vertical force i think. but im probably wrong.

Doc Al
Mentor
there is no vertical force i think.
Then what's holding up the mass? It's not falling, right?

force that opposite way to arm holding the mass i dont know whats this word in english. it may be centrifugal.

Doc Al
Mentor
force that opposite way to arm holding the mass i dont know whats this word in english. it may be centrifugal.
No, I'm not talking about centrifugal force.

Answer this: What forces act on the mass. In what direction is the mass accelerating?

there is a centrifugal force. and there is anti centrifugal that rope has on mass and gravity force.