A Religious Experience

  • #1

Main Question or Discussion Point

I witnessed what is called the dance of the sun. I saw an apparition what is now known as our Lady of Fatima. I am living proof to tell. Something so strange, that many to this day don't believe me, and I don't expect them to, as this is so hard to prove in this day in age. But what I am about to say is very personal and true. I was about 12 years old. My mom , my sisters and brother were out, and we were so hungry and tired, it was a hot sunny day so my mom decided we eat at the park, so we could play. When we sat down, in the grass to eat a lady appeared to us, and said, to my mom, come come follow me, and see the miracle of our lady. My mom, too tired, hot and hungry and skeptical simply said, no not now as we are very hungry & tired. My mom was facing down, but I saw such a beautiful lady, she looked at me, and smiled her skin was so pure with a natural glow-like much like our lady of fatima, she smelled like fresh flowers and was soft spoken. She walked through the park and I saw her disappear in thin air and all of a sudden the sun..it began to make all types of swirls, almost like a dance, in and out it changed colours,it spinned around in circles, it went slow and fast then in the sun, we saw jesus face in the sun, the virgin mary, and a white dove flying while the sun was making all these swirls, a tail, it was so hard to beleive we were all saying OH MY Gooodness! it was something so out of this world. Then gradually the sun stopped swirling in circles, and we didn't see the images and the rays of the sun was so strong we were unable to see ... or stare at it anymore. We were all shocked. To see such a phenomenom, and then the sun turned back to normal. ANd to this day we will never ever forget.-Katherine -1/29/2011
 

Answers and Replies

  • #2
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I'll be honest, that story would hold more water for me if you hadn't mentioned being very tired and hungry. Both of those can have severe side effects to generate what you claim without having to invoke the supernatural.

Besides that, let's say this really did happen. You actually saw a face, a woman and a dove. Why would that face be Jesus and the woman the virgin Mary? Why couldn't it just be random people? Even when the story is held true, the content doesn't add up. You assign your own 'values' to what you see.

What you describe really does sound like a drug induced hallucination.
 
  • #3
Evo
Mentor
23,134
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I'll be honest, that story would hold more water for me if you hadn't mentioned being very tired and hungry. Both of those can have severe side effects to generate what you claim without having to invoke the supernatural.

Besides that, let's say this really did happen. You actually saw a face, a woman and a dove. Why would that face be Jesus and the woman the virgin Mary? Why couldn't it just be random people? Even when the story is held true, the content doesn't add up. You assign your own 'values' to what you see.

What you describe really does sound like a drug induced hallucination.
Tired, hunger, heat = hallucinations.
 
  • #4
2,685
20


Tired, hunger, heat = hallucinations.
Exactly.

I was a bit low on sugar yesterday and found myself dizzy, seeing things out of the corner of my eyes. Never had it before and found it rather disturbing.
 
  • #5
baywax
Gold Member
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Nonetheless, I'm happy for the family that they were able to enjoy the imagery even though they were famished and fatigued.
 
  • #6
4,239
1


I witnessed what is called the dance of the sun. I saw an apparition what is now known as our Lady of Fatima. I am living proof to tell. Something so strange, that many to this day don't believe me, and I don't expect them to, as this is so hard to prove in this day in age. But what I am about to say is very personal and true. I was about 12 years old. My mom , my sisters and brother were out, and we were so hungry and tired, it was a hot sunny day so my mom decided we eat at the park, so we could play. When we sat down, in the grass to eat a lady appeared to us, and said, to my mom, come come follow me, and see the miracle of our lady. My mom, too tired, hot and hungry and skeptical simply said, no not now as we are very hungry & tired. My mom was facing down, but I saw such a beautiful lady, she looked at me, and smiled her skin was so pure with a natural glow-like much like our lady of fatima, she smelled like fresh flowers and was soft spoken. She walked through the park and I saw her disappear in thin air and all of a sudden the sun..it began to make all types of swirls, almost like a dance, in and out it changed colours,it spinned around in circles, it went slow and fast then in the sun, we saw jesus face in the sun, the virgin mary, and a white dove flying while the sun was making all these swirls, a tail, it was so hard to beleive we were all saying OH MY Gooodness! it was something so out of this world. Then gradually the sun stopped swirling in circles, and we didn't see the images and the rays of the sun was so strong we were unable to see ... or stare at it anymore. We were all shocked. To see such a phenomenom, and then the sun turned back to normal. ANd to this day we will never ever forget.-Katherine -1/29/2011
Obrigado por compartilhar suas experiências, Doña Katherine.
 
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  • #7


With all due respect, your comment is rather ignorant. I'm not here to make you believe, or to convince you in any way. You can come up with endless excuses as to why we witnessed what we saw, and it wasn't only me. And obviously its not Tired, hunger, heat = hallucinations. Then according to you I was the only one hallucinating at the same time seeing the same thing???? My mother, Brother, sisters and family saw it, those people who were at the park that day saw it. And I mean the Same exact thing. , So no..not everyone was tired and hungry. Not only that...But I might believe you if we were under 100 degrees with no food for a week or 24 hrs or even 4 hours to say, but that wasn't the case. Not to that point, and you know exactly what I mean. Many witnessed the same thing , we all saw it. We were not Starving to the point of hallucination. To answer your question.
 
  • #8
223
1


How old are you Katherine? Where did this take place please? And are you of a certian religion?
Thanks

Edit: Am I allowed to ask this kind of question of this poster?
 
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  • #9
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With all due respect, your comment is rather ignorant. I'm not here to make you believe, or to convince you in any way. You can come up with endless excuses as to why we witnessed what we saw, and it wasn't only me. And obviously its not Tired, hunger, heat = hallucinations. Then according to you I was the only one hallucinating at the same time seeing the same thing???? My mother, Brother, sisters and family saw it, those people who were at the park that day saw it. And I mean the Same exact thing. , So no..not everyone was tired and hungry. Not only that...But I might believe you if we were under 100 degrees with no food for a week or 24 hrs or even 4 hours to say, but that wasn't the case. Not to that point, and you know exactly what I mean. Many witnessed the same thing , we all saw it. We were not Starving to the point of hallucination. To answer your question.
Come on, there is no Virgin Mary. No dancing sun (you know the sun can't dance). Searching in the internet, the most credible research is done by Jacques Vallee who concluded it was a UFO event. But then we know that in billions of galaxies. Only Earth may have life, hence no UFOs can't exist too. Perhaps the metallic disc witnessed there were from our own government. Anyway. Quoting Jacques from the internet I read:

Vallee states: "The crowd that stood in a field in Fatima, a small village in the district of Leiria, some sixty-two miles north of Lisbon, on October 13, 1917, was waiting there for a miracle, because three children had been assured such an event would take place after a number of meetings with an 'entity' that came from the sky in a globe of light. The witnesses were three shepherds: Lucia, aged ten, and her cousins Francisco Mario and Jacinto Marto, aged nine and seven. Today, Fatima is one of the most celebrated places of pilgrimage in the entire world."

...According to the very words of the Reverend General Vicar of Leiria, who was one of the witnesses, the lady came in an 'aeroplane of light,' an 'immense globe, flying westwards, at moderate speed. It irradiated a very bright light.' Some other witnesses saw a white being coming out of the globe, which several minutes later took off, disappearing in the direction of the sun.

The last episode was the miracle itself. It was seen by seventy thousand persons, among whom were pious individuals and atheists, clergymen and reporters from a socialist newspaper. As promised, it happened on October 13 at noon. Among the crowd was Professor Almeida Garrett, of Coimbra University, a scientist, who described the phenomena in the following terms: 'It was raining hard, and the rain trickled down everyone's clothes. Suddenly, the sun shone through the dense cloud which covered it: everybody looked in its direction. IT LOOKED LIKE A DISC, OF A VERY DEFINITE CONTOUR. It was not dazzling. I don't think that it could be compared to a dull silver disk, as someone said later in Fatima. No. It rather possessed a clear, changing brightness, which one could compare to a pearl. It looked like a polished wheel. This is not poetry. My eyes have seen it. This clear-shaped disk suddenly began turning. It rotated with increasing speed. Suddenly, the crowd began crying with anguish. The sun (disk?), revolving all the time, began falling toward the earth, reddish and bloody, threatening to crush everyone under its fiery weight...'
"
 
  • #10


Lacy33 , My name is Katherine I am 30 years old. I had the Privilege to have witnessed this phenomenon, or may I say a miracle when I was 12 years old around 1992.

I say miracle , because at that time, when the lady approached us, and asked my mother to follow her to see the miracle, my mother and I didn't believe, we all didn't believe, reason why we didn't follow her. We thought other things were much more important. She disappeared in thin air, as I saw it be. yes unbelievable as it sounds, but true.

And then the... sun it...happened, as I described earlier, after she disappeared, the sun started making all these weird swirls,in and out ..it bounced, fast then slow... and then the images appeared, the images were clear and vivid. I saw, Jesus, Face, The virgin Mary, A White dove which was flying, and a tail of some sort. We were all able to stare at the sun, It happened so fast. We all witnessed the same exact thing.After this, the images faded away slowly. The sun turned a bit darker, much like dawn, like when you can see the sun ..then it became the regular everyday sun, one whom you can't stare at,which is too bright for your eyes to stare at and see.

It was during the Months of May, June, July, I can't give an exact date, and time. But sometime around these months. In Queens , New York . The place where my family and I saw it was in a park called Flushing Meadows Corona Park.

I am Catholic, I believe in God. I respect everyones religion, point of view and beliefs. I do not go to church everyday, nor am I the type of person that is practicing my religion to the point of perfection. But I carry God, and my faith within me!!!! I believe in doing good, in peace and harmony. My family and I at the time, never heard of such thing, not in my wildest dreams. But it's a feeling I will never forget ;-) Not everyone in everyday life can see this!!!! Many might not believe me, I completely understand. But this did happen to me.
 
  • #11


Lacy33 , My name is Katherine I am 30 years old. I had the Privilege to have witnessed this phenomenon, or may I say a miracle when I was 12 years old around 1992.

I say miracle , because at that time, when the lady approached us, and asked my mother to follow her to see the miracle, my mother and I didn't believe, we all didn't believe, reason why we didn't follow her. We thought other things were much more important. She disappeared in thin air, as I saw it be. yes unbelievable as it sounds, but true.

And then the... sun it...happened, as I described earlier, after she disappeared, the sun started making all these weird swirls,in and out ..it bounced, fast then slow... and then the images appeared, the images were clear and vivid. I saw, Jesus, Face, The virgin Mary, A White dove which was flying, and a tail of some sort. We were all able to stare at the sun, It happened so fast. We all witnessed the same exact thing.After this, the images faded away slowly. The sun turned a bit darker, much like dawn, like when you can see the sun ..then it became the regular everyday sun, one whom you can't stare at,which is too bright for your eyes to stare at and see.

It was during the Months of May, June, July, I can't give an exact date, and time. But sometime around these months. In Queens , New York . The place where my family and I saw it was in a park called Flushing Meadows Corona Park.

I am Catholic, I believe in God. I respect everyones religion, point of view and beliefs. I do not go to church everyday, nor am I the type of person that is practicing my religion to the point of perfection. But I carry God, and my faith within me!!!! I believe in doing good, in peace and harmony. My family and I at the time, never heard of such thing, not in my wildest dreams. But it's a feeling I will never forget ;-) Not everyone in everyday life can see this!!!! Many might not believe me, I completely understand. But this did happen to me.
Try to understand, everyone here has a handful of options in terms of what to believe:

-Believe the evidence: there is none.
-Believe the eyewitnesses: there are a lot, but eyewitnesses are not so great, especially in the context of crowds... oh nucleus accumbens!
-Believe that you saw everything you claimed, that there is a god based on what you say, and that the way in which this being manifested was to have people stare at the sun and see the imagery that would be personally meaningful to their faith.

You've shared a personal story that may be true, may not be true, or maybe you believe it, and of course, maybe the sun did all of those things defying all we know.

For that last one, there is no skepticism in a profession of pure belief based on this.

By the way, why did you capitalize "privilege"?
AND... please, don't stare at the sun anymore, because you MIGHT see god and doves, but you will DEFINITELY harm your eyes. I don't believe that a god which has so proven its existence and nature to you, wants you to fry your retinas.
 
  • #12
alt
Gold Member
202
0


Lacy33 , My name is Katherine I am 30 years old. I had the Privilege to have witnessed this phenomenon, or may I say a miracle when I was 12 years old around 1992.

I say miracle , because at that time, when the lady approached us, and asked my mother to follow her to see the miracle, my mother and I didn't believe, we all didn't believe, reason why we didn't follow her. We thought other things were much more important. She disappeared in thin air, as I saw it be. yes unbelievable as it sounds, but true.

And then the... sun it...happened, as I described earlier, after she disappeared, the sun started making all these weird swirls,in and out ..it bounced, fast then slow... and then the images appeared, the images were clear and vivid. I saw, Jesus, Face, The virgin Mary, A White dove which was flying, and a tail of some sort. We were all able to stare at the sun, It happened so fast. We all witnessed the same exact thing.After this, the images faded away slowly. The sun turned a bit darker, much like dawn, like when you can see the sun ..then it became the regular everyday sun, one whom you can't stare at,which is too bright for your eyes to stare at and see.

It was during the Months of May, June, July, I can't give an exact date, and time. But sometime around these months. In Queens , New York . The place where my family and I saw it was in a park called Flushing Meadows Corona Park.

I am Catholic, I believe in God. I respect everyones religion, point of view and beliefs. I do not go to church everyday, nor am I the type of person that is practicing my religion to the point of perfection. But I carry God, and my faith within me!!!! I believe in doing good, in peace and harmony. My family and I at the time, never heard of such thing, not in my wildest dreams. But it's a feeling I will never forget ;-) Not everyone in everyday life can see this!!!! Many might not believe me, I completely understand. But this did happen to me.
the sun started making all these weird swirls,in and out ..it bounced, fast then slow...

Hi katherine. The following are serious questions, and I'd ask you to think about them seriously and let me have clear unambiguous answers.

In Queens, New York .. do you think that other people, not predisposed to your faith, also saw this ? If so, is there any record of it ? If not, why do you suppose no one else saw it - if it was a real, physical event ?

Also, such an event would have been recorded by a plethora of astronomers, meteorologists, etc. In fact, it would have been impossible for no such records or observations to exist - if it was a real, physical event. Do you know of any ? If not, why do you suppose there's none ?
 
  • #13


I hate to ask this, because it sounds presumptuous and cruel, but you've described what most would assume is a hallucination. Your credibility as a witness does depend on your state of mind, whether or not you have or do use drugs (and which kind), how often you've had mystical experiences... and a number of other overly personal questions.

There's no way to even set the stage to seriously explore your claim, without first exploring the claimant... you. That is unrealistic in this setting, and almost certainly unwelcome.
 
  • #14
2,685
20


Lacy33 , My name is Katherine I am 30 years old. I had the Privilege to have witnessed this phenomenon, or may I say a miracle when I was 12 years old around 1992.
If it did occur, it was simply a phenomenon not miracle. I'm sorry if this is blunt or offends.
I saw, Jesus, Face, The virgin Mary, A White dove which was flying, and a tail of some sort.
Again, if Jesus and the virgin Mary existed how do you know what they looked like given there are zero images of them from circa 2000 years ago? If they looked like the images you have seen in churches / books then your head has created those images.
We were all able to stare at the sun,
When I stare at the sun, I see weird stuff too.
It happened so fast. We all witnessed the same exact thing.
Who is 'we'? Just your family or more people?
After this, the images faded away slowly.
If you stare at the sun and look away, this will occur. You will see the image for a while and it will fade slowly.
It was during the Months of May, June, July, I can't give an exact date, and time.
You see something this amazing and don't record it somewhere? Surely such a life changing event would have made you do something to note it down. This is a common thing with ghost hunters, they have a thing with stopping filming when something amazing supposedly happens.
But sometime around these months. In Queens , New York . The place where my family and I saw it was in a park called Flushing Meadows Corona Park.
As questioned above, New York has an extremely high population density so why did no one else see it? Why was it not recorded elsewhere by anyone else? Does that not indicate something to you?

Another point, everyone within your "day zone" (where it's currently day) sees the same sun. So why did no one else see it? Must have been hundreds of millions of people in visible range.
Many might not believe me, I completely understand. But this did happen to me.
Precisely, no one else in queens saw it. It's difficult to accept such a testimony when such a densely packed area could produce no further witnesses.

You could claim that god showed this only to you and your family, but this just makes it sound more like a case of hallucination and mass hysteria.

The scientific world doesn't look at voices in the head as god speaking, they view it as a sign of madness/illness. (I'm not calling you mad, just an example of the scientific view point towards events only apparent to the few.)
 
  • #15


Jared... I was with you until you said that you stared at the sun. That had better be a rhetorical device or I will SWIM to the UK and slap polarizing glasses on you with ultra glue! :tongue:


Otherwise, great points.
 
  • #16
2,685
20


Jared... I was with you until you said that you stared at the sun. That had better be a rhetorical device or I will SWIM to the UK and slap polarizing glasses on you with ultra glue! :tongue:

Otherwise, great points.
Not deliberately, what do you take me for? :eek:

Nah, it's the little things like when I'm not concentrating and get dazzled. See blotches for ten minutes later. :tongue:

But yes, in the case of my reply it is a rhetorical device.
 
  • #17


Not deliberately, what do you take me for? :eek:

Nah, it's the little things like when I'm not concentrating and get dazzled. See blotches for ten minutes later. :tongue:

But yes, in the case of my reply it is a rhetorical device.
:biggrin: You know how, in my extreme smartiness and brightitutde, I know that you don't stare at the sun... you're not blind. :tongue:

Kidding aside, I visited a science museum in which they explored persistent images, and how you can easily make yourself see ghosts, and virtually anything else dance in front of your vision. It's something I understood going in, but viscerally it's still a powerful lesson.

Everyone thinks they're the one person who isn't open to those human frailties that in face we are ALL subject to.
 
  • #18


Lacy33 , My name is Katherine I am 30 years old. I had the Privilege to have witnessed this phenomenon, or may I say a miracle when I was 12 years old around 1992.

I say miracle , because at that time, when the lady approached us, and asked my mother to follow her to see the miracle, my mother and I didn't believe, we all didn't believe, reason why we didn't follow her. We thought other things were much more important. She disappeared in thin air, as I saw it be. yes unbelievable as it sounds, but true.

And then the... sun it...happened, as I described earlier, after she disappeared, the sun started making all these weird swirls,in and out ..it bounced, fast then slow... and then the images appeared, the images were clear and vivid. I saw, Jesus, Face, The virgin Mary, A White dove which was flying, and a tail of some sort. We were all able to stare at the sun, It happened so fast. We all witnessed the same exact thing.After this, the images faded away slowly. The sun turned a bit darker, much like dawn, like when you can see the sun ..then it became the regular everyday sun, one whom you can't stare at,which is too bright for your eyes to stare at and see.

It was during the Months of May, June, July, I can't give an exact date, and time. But sometime around these months. In Queens , New York . The place where my family and I saw it was in a park called Flushing Meadows Corona Park.

I am Catholic, I believe in God. I respect everyones religion, point of view and beliefs. I do not go to church everyday, nor am I the type of person that is practicing my religion to the point of perfection. But I carry God, and my faith within me!!!! I believe in doing good, in peace and harmony. My family and I at the time, never heard of such thing, not in my wildest dreams. But it's a feeling I will never forget ;-) Not everyone in everyday life can see this!!!! Many might not believe me, I completely understand. But this did happen to me.
Do you have a photograph to share with us? If not, read "Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions and the Madness of Crowds," by Charles MacKay, LLD.
 
  • #19
Evo
Mentor
23,134
2,653


I saw, Jesus, Face, The virgin Mary, A White dove which was flying, and a tail of some sort.
Wow, what does Jesus look like? No one on earth knows because he was never described. But, you know. So, please describe him.

No one knows what his mom looked like either.

What's the significance of a white dove?

Oh, wait, all of these things were painted in the middle ages, so you saw a popular painting in the sky. I admit that is amazing.

Sorry, but it's one thing to say you saw "something", but assigning specific people or meanings to them is not allowed here.
 
  • #20


Wow, what does Jesus look like?
re bolded snipped: Like Astronuc's avatar with a kind smile?
 
  • #21
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20


re bolded snipped: Like Astronuc's avatar with a kind smile?
Classic hippy?
 
  • #22
Evo
Mentor
23,134
2,653
  • #23


Classic hippy?
Well, hippy or maybe more, "desert sage". If we're going to pretend to have an idea of what the guy looked like, it might as well be fun... otherwise he probably looked like the people protesting in Egypt, only shorter and with more Semitic features. If Astronuc's avatar were a bit darker, that beard is QUALITY and would be respected in African or Middle-Eastern (including Israel) nation.

Evo: That's a fun article... what's it doing in popular mechanics? It seems above their standard, which is usually fun, but too much flying car promises.
 
  • #24
127
0


Hi guys, I need to know some formulas.
What's the formula to calculate the distance between ground and atmosphere for a round object to totally obstruct the sun in such a way that it is also same diameter as the sun as seen from ground? Suppose the round object is 10 meters in diameter. How far above should it be position such that it is the same apparent size of the sun as seen from the ground?

I once saw a video at TV of a 3 dimensional Virgin Mary image just appearing in the trees. It looks like a hologram projected.
 
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  • #25


I will try to answer your question as best a I can. Yes, I believe other people not predisposed of my faith saw this, yes, there are numerous records of this phenomenom, or apparitions. These apparitions were evident world wide before I witnessed it. I never knew that this existed or that it had happened to other people in the past. Many people claim to have seen the apparitions in Flushing Meadows Corona Park, dated back to 1970, and to this day, they pray there. There are many records of is. I saw this 1992. Honestly,I am unable to recall if during this year if any metorologist, or scientists, religious leaders, or news media investigated the scene or not during that year I don't know.
 

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