# A storage problem

1. Mar 8, 2010

### mdl

Hi,

if something exists, it must be stored somewhere. a program is stored in a hardware, our thoughts are stored in our brains, our bodies are stored in the universe.

the universe exists, so it has to be stored somewhere. so a storage of universe exists - and it has to be stored somewhere, and a storage of that storage, etc.

it seems like there should be infinite number of storages.

what are possible solutions to this?
.. the universe stores itself?

thx
mdl

2. Mar 8, 2010

### Amio

Take it a bit differently. A program is stored in a hardware. A hardware in a Computer. A computer in a room... house... city... country... earth... thus ultimately we reach to Universe. So everything is stored in the universe. What is universe? We can take a piece of wood and say, this is a piece of wood. But we can not say at something that, this is the universe. Because universe is not a thing. Its an idea. All spaces and times, things and energy makes the idea of universe. Universe neednt be stored. Because Universe itself is the idea of Ultimate Storage.

3. Mar 8, 2010

### magpies

I don't agree I think the universe is a thing but yes it is also an idea or concept. Where is the universe stored is a good question and the answer imo should be obvious.

4. Mar 8, 2010

### Amio

If universe is a thing, then it must stored somewhere - ie may be in a superior universe. So if you think like this, it wont end. Now if we think storage is endless, that may be a kind of thought, I agree. But it isnt clear enough. We need to have an idea of the last storage.

And surely the question is a good one.

5. Mar 9, 2010

### JoeDawg

The Universe is not a thing, it is everything.

6. Mar 9, 2010

### magpies

And everything is a thing.

So the riddle is... "What can you use to store everything in that takes no room in the storage bin?"

7. Mar 9, 2010

### JoeDawg

That is a word game. Everything is a concept that includes all things.

So either you are talking about every thing, in which case it can't be in any thing, or you're not talking about every thing.

8. Mar 9, 2010

### mdl

so it exists without being stored?
I mean.. how can something exist and not be stored?

9. Mar 9, 2010

### JoeDawg

You're arguing a tautology.

Universe simply means 'every thing that exists'.
Its a poor definition, because we don't really know what that encompasses, or the nature of what it encompasses.
And you're getting hung up on the semantics of that definition.

Saying: if it exists it must be stored, is no different than saying, if it exists it must exist.

So you end up chasing your tail around the tautology.

Physicists ran into a similar problem with light. If its a wave there must be a medium for the wave to travel in, an ether. Apparently, there isn't. Light is just weird that way.