Bush, Abortion & Unborn Babies: Survey Critique

[pattylou]

I am curious how *much* support hinges on the "saving unborn babies" angle. This is a poorly worded poll, take it anyway. If your name starts with an R, go ahead and critique the wording. You know you want to. :tongue2:

 

[Smasherman]

Oh, this isn't about whether or not Bush's mother should have had an abortion?

(sorry, I couldn't resist)

 

[Pengwuino]

Im rather amazed anyone voted for Prochoice/ I think the presidency should stay out of everyone's bedroom since this is a judicial issue. I'm not sure how people could miss this...

And of course the poll is bias considering the *'s is pattylou's way of emphasizing words.

I voted for halloween.

 

[Smasherman]

Yes, the poll isn't exactly correct, but neither is much of anything. The trick to communicating with other people is to assume that they mean what you expect them to mean. This of course causes many problems, but it works fairly well.

 

[Pengwuino]

The trick to communicating with other people is to assume that they mean what you expect them to mean. This of course causes many problems, but it works fairly well.

Yes... that's a horrifically unscientific way of doing things...

 

[Smasherman]

That's language for ya, though. For instance, I expect that by "unscientific", you mean "not done by means of the scientific method". It could also be interpreted as "not related to a science", as in math, art, etc. I suppose you already know what I mean, though, so this post is pointless...yeah...

 

[Pengwuino]

Well one of the very last things a poll should be is ambiguous (but then again there are worse errors in this poll anyways). Oh well, its a political rant so rational thought doesn't matter.

 

[loseyourname]

I voted for pro-life but it really isn't any of the president's business. Overturning Roe v. Wade, or any other Supreme Court ruling, is a matter for the judiciary. At the very extreme end (a Constitutional amendment), it could be a matter for the legislature. It really shouldn't ever be a matter for the president.

 

[Manchot]

I voted for pro-life but it really isn't any of the president's business. Overturning Roe v. Wade, or any other Supreme Court ruling, is a matter for the judiciary. At the very extreme end (a Constitutional amendment), it could be a matter for the legislature. It really shouldn't ever be a matter for the president.

Seconded. What I don't understand is how there's people out there who are anti-abortion and anti-Iraq war, and voted for Bush because they believed that the former should override the latter. IMO, abortion is not the biggest problem with our country right now.

 

[pattylou]

The reason I started the poll is because an american guy on the BBC world service yesterday, was being interviewed about all the hangups and quagmires in the country right now, he agreed across the board that things were a real mess.

But, when the reporter asked "Is the country worse off than a year ago?" he said: "No, I know what you mean, with all the stuff going on, but if Bush can do something to illegalize abortion then I'll feel pretty good about things."

I was floored - all the scandal, everything, and he basically felt that because Bush *could* have some hand in the abortion issue, he was still happy.

It doesn't look like anyone here feels that way, though.

 

[pattylou]

Seconded. What I don't understand is how there's people out there who are anti-abortion and anti-Iraq war, and voted for Bush because they believed that the former should override the latter. IMO, abortion is not the biggest problem with our country right now.

Maybe... there is some sense of martyrdom, that this war is a proce we have to pay to have a shot at porotecting the innocent lives of babies?

I don't know, of course...

 

[Skyhunter]

What are you going to be for halloween?

 

[Anttech]

Prochoice/ I think the presidency should stay out of everyone's bedroom

Is what I choose. I don't believe in Murder but I believe that up to a point it should be allowed to abort, anyway this law won't effect me in the slightest bit, so sorry if I skew your results

 

[Skyhunter]

Im rather amazed anyone voted for Prochoice/ I think the presidency should stay out of everyone's bedroom since this is a judicial issue. I'm not sure how people could miss this...

Is that not a contradiction?

Vote against choice, yet the government should stay out of the bedroom?

Could you rationalize this please?

 

[pattylou]

What are you going to be for halloween?

I haven't decided. I've always wanted to be one of those moms in a really wicked witch costume or some other costume with real pizzazz... but anytime I see a woman trying to pull that off it always looks pathetic. If I go out with the kids I'll probably throw on my clown suit. But I took them last year, and so if Mike takes them this year, then I won't dress up at all.

 

[Skyhunter]

I haven't decided. I've always wanted to be one of those moms in a really wicked witch costume or some other costume with real pizzazz... but anytime I see a woman trying to pull that off it always looks pathetic. If I go out with the kids I'll probably throw on my clown suit. But I took them last year, and so if Mike takes them this year, then I won't dress up at all.

Go for the Elvira look.

I haven't decided what I will do for Halloween.

My kids are old enough I might take then to SF for Halloween. it is the biggest holiday celebration of the year. Rivaled only by the Bay-to-Breakers race/parade.

 

[SOS2008]

Is that not a contradiction?
Vote against choice, yet the government should stay out of the bedroom?
Could you rationalize this please?

I took it to mean any government entity (judicial) and/or judicial selection by the president for purposes of ruling against Roe v Wade. However, though people claim the intervention in the Schiavo matter had nothing to do with pro-life, it did. And in this case the president did get involved and tried to intervene.

 

[Pengwuino]

I took it to mean any government entity (judicial) and/or judicial selection by the president for purposes of ruling against Roe v Wade. However, though people claim the intervention in the Schiavo matter had nothing to do with pro-life, it did. And in this case the president did get involved and tried to intervene.

As usual, SOS comes out firing with the insults.

Is that not a contradiction?

I'm not concerned with the first part, the second part is what i was concerned about, i should have made that clearer. The executive branch (ie The Presidency) enforces laws, they don't rule on their constitutionality, thus the poll answer is illogical. And actually, come to think of it, the 2nd and 3rd choices are equally illogical. The President is simply there to have an opinion in this arena of government. This is entirely a judicial problem.

So please, next time read the poll choice before replying. The Presidency is not our entire government.

 

[russ_watters]

If your name starts with an R, go ahead and critique the wording. You know you want to. :tongue2:

I like the wording. I voted for "What will you be for halloween?" and the answer is: drunk.

My opinion on the debate (but not abortion itself) is that it is more trouble than it is worth. Ie, there are more important things to do in this country than argue about an issue that changes very little over time and has very little impact on most peoples' lives.

 

[Pengwuino]

My opinion on the debate (but not abortion itself) is that it is more trouble than it is worth. Ie, there are more important things to do in this country than argue about an issue that changes very little over time and has very little impact on most peoples' lives.

This country is a one issue country it seems. I wonder how few people in the bickering community knew her stance on absolutely any other issue outside of the real political community.

 

[Skyhunter]

I'm not concerned with the first part, the second part is what i was concerned about, i should have made that clearer. The executive branch (ie The Presidency) enforces laws, they don't rule on their constitutionality, thus the poll answer is illogical. And actually, come to think of it, the 2nd and 3rd choices are equally illogical. The President is simply there to have an opinion in this arena of government. This is entirely a judicial problem.
So please, next time read the poll choice before replying. The Presidency is not our entire government.

Who said the Presidency was the entire government besides you?

You are not concerned with the first part?

Do you mean whether or not abortion should be legal?

The government is interconnected. You can't isolate the President from the judiciary, especially right now when there is a vacant seat on the SC.

You do know who appoints Supreme Court Justices?

And who consents to the appointments?

I think you were trying to insult anyone who is pro-choice, and then deflect a rebuttal by declaring that the whole poll is irrelevant.

 

[Kerrie]

I like the wording. I voted for "What will you be for halloween?" and the answer is: drunk.
My opinion on the debate (but not abortion itself) is that it is more trouble than it is worth. Ie, there are more important things to do in this country than argue about an issue that changes very little over time and has very little impact on most peoples' lives.

Actually, it has an impact of about 51% of American lives-those of women :tongue: at least those who are able to conceive a child. And we can't forget the men who it affects also-those who could become fathers. In general, I do believe it matters to many where a president stands on the issue, it's a very deep core matter of a what a person believes should they be in such a situation, and makes them feel more at ease with who they "select".

 

[Informal Logic]

If there was a ruling that required people to have abortions under various circumstances, I could understand the fervor. In other words, those who are pro life are free to be pro life and be at peace with themselves in their decision. Why do they need to impose their belief on others? Other than that I do not feel I (men) should have any say in the matter because it is a woman's issue.

 

[BobG]

If there was a ruling that required people to have abortions under various circumstances, I could understand the fervor. In other words, those who are pro life are free to be pro life and be at peace with themselves in their decision. Why do they need to impose their belief on others? Other than that I do not feel I (men) should have any say in the matter because it is a woman's issue.

You're single? It's hard to imagine that a married couple wouldn't know how the other wants to handle kids. If they can't agree on something that big before marriage, they're going to run into some big problems later on.

What happens if one changes their mind about how many kids to have? Or about whether to have kids at all? It should still be just the wife's decision since it's a "woman's issue"?

 

[Kerrie]

You're single? It's hard to imagine that a married couple wouldn't know how the other wants to handle kids. If they can't agree on something that big before marriage, they're going to run into some big problems later on.
What happens if one changes their mind about how many kids to have? Or about whether to have kids at all? It should still be just the wife's decision since it's a "woman's issue"?

i agree that it's more then a woman's issue-her decision can affect that man for the rest of his life regarding the child. he doesn't have the option to NOT pay child support unless she agrees to him signing over his parental rights. ultimately, the decision affects the woman and child the greatest.

 

[russ_watters]

Actually, it has an impact of about 51% of American lives-those of women :tongue:

What I meant was Row v Wade is more than 30 years old and very little has changed in the interim. While abortion may be important to some people, the debate has accomplished very little. I was talking about the debate, not abortion itself.

In general, I do believe it matters to many where a president stands on the issue, it's a very deep core matter of a what a person believes should they be in such a situation, and makes them feel more at ease with who they "select".

I know it matters to some people as a "benchmark" issue, but because of what I said above, I consider it a fairly useless benchmark issue. There were probably people who voted for Reagan or Bush Sr soley beacuse they were pro-life or Clinton soley because he was pro-choice, but the issue barely even came up in their presidencies.

There is a disconnect between the effort spent on the issue while campaigning (a lot) and effort spent on the issue while in office (virtually nothing). That's all I'm saying.