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About the Edit option

  1. Jun 28, 2008 #1

    Fredrik

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    I think it would be great to be able to edit posts even after they got several replies. Has this never been allowed here, or was it allowed and people abused it? I would like to be able to add e.g. "This calculation is wrong, but I think I got it right in #22" or "Post #51 answered this question completely" to an old post.

    It would probably be best if we could just add stuff to old posts, but I guess vBulletin doesn't have that feature. Are you guys completely against allowing edits after the first hour?
     
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  3. Jun 28, 2008 #2

    cristo

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    Whilst such a feature would be fine for those members that use it properly, there will be members who abuse the feature. This is the reason the editing period was shortened in the first place: members, especially in the homework forums, would edit their posts when they had been worked through the question, so the original post showed the solution. They would also go on and edit mistakes they had made in previous posts after they had had them pointed out by a homework helper. This made for very disjoint threads which didn't make any sense to anyone else that was reading them. Thus, we decided to restrict the editing period to half an hour.

    Whilst I am not certain, I don't think that vbulletin has a feature to only add content to posts.
     
  4. Jun 28, 2008 #3

    Hootenanny

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    You are allowed a 'grace period' of 30 minutes after you originally posted to edit your post. Previously the grace period was 24 hours, but as you say the editing system was open to abuse: people would edit their posts to make subsequent replies seem out of context or simply wrong. In some cases people were editing their original posts to remove or mutilate questions once they had been answered.

    It was thought that 30 minutes was sufficient time for you to read through your post, spot and correct any errors. However, if you spot a serious error (no-one is going to make a fuss about spelling mistakes) in one of your posts use the report button to detail the correct and a mentor will make the correction for you.

    Edit: It seems cristo can type faster than me :tongue2:
     
  5. Jun 28, 2008 #4

    robphy

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    What, in principle, might be a good compromise is to
    append to the first post a list of links to and optional titles of subsequent posts
    in this thread by the original poster.
    So, you [as the first poster] can alert readers of corrections, elaborations, solutions, etc...
    without disrupting the temporal flow of the discussion.
    I think it might make navigation a little easier... especially for a new reader visiting the thread.

    It also might be interesting to represent the thread as a tree, or maybe a [partial] ordering of posts, based on the [quote ][ /quote] tags. This might reveal the nature of the discussion in the thread [especially long ones]. Is it a back-and-forth between two persons? or several such disjoint conversations? or something else?
     
  6. Jun 28, 2008 #5

    Fredrik

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    I don't like tree-structured forums much, and I hate the ones where you can choose if you want to view a thread as a tree or not, but I agree that discussions in a vBulletin forum are sometimes more difficult to follow than discussions in tree-structured forums.

    I never liked the fact that vBulletin removes all quotes inside the text I'm quoting. If there's any way the admins could change that, I think it would make the quality of discussions improve significantly. My experience is that most people don't even know what the discussion is about after a few replies back and forth when the comment that spawned the discussion isn't included. They're usually too lazy to go back and check what was said. This makes it very hard to have a discussion sometimes.
     
  7. Jun 29, 2008 #6
    A half an hour has proved to be insufficient. There have been many times that I had to edit a post because I later saw the formula was wrong. It can take a while to figure out what the problem is and a half an hour is not long enough. It has often resulted in my having to post the same material in another post entirely.

    Please lengthen it to an hour.

    Pete
     
  8. Jun 29, 2008 #7

    cristo

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    If something like this happens then you can simply use the report button to ask a mentor to edit the formula.
     
  9. Jun 29, 2008 #8

    Fredrik

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    I think it was changed to an hour a few days ago. At least I think the message I got when I tried to submit a change said that the limit is 60 minutes. (I think I clicked the edit button before my time was up, and then took too long to make the changes). I don't know if this was 30 or 60 minutes after I made the post. It was probably 60 minutes, because I see now that I made the next post 63 minutes after the first.
     
  10. Jun 29, 2008 #9

    Kurdt

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    If you're making a large post it is probably better to use a text editor and then copy your final draft before posting. If there is latex in the post you can preview that at several websites (a couple of which are listed here) before posting. I also suggest once you post it you give it a quick read through to try and catch any mistakes quickly. If you've done all this and then still find a major mistake you can use the report button to alert the mentors that you need the post altering.
     
  11. Jun 29, 2008 #10

    robphy

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  12. Jun 29, 2008 #11

    Fredrik

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    I went over to vbulletin.com to beg them to add this feature. It seems that I'm not the only one who's had this idea. It also turned out that this feature already exists. All you have to do is to edit a line in functions.php. Linky.
     
  13. Jun 29, 2008 #12

    cristo

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    Personally, i think such a feature would make the forums untidy. We'll end up with posts having upwards of three layers of quotes meaning we'll have to scroll down half a page to read the new content. I don't think this is something that is necessary, since if one wishes to read the post which is replied to in the quote, one can simply scroll up to the appropriate post. In the odd case where it is necessary to have, say, two layers of quote in a reply, one can put these in manually.
     
  14. Jun 29, 2008 #13

    Kurdt

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    There's even a handy button to take you to the quoted post.
     
  15. Jun 29, 2008 #14

    Fredrik

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    The problem is that people don't do that. Yes, I do that, but the people who would need it the most don't. I have many times gotten into ridiculous arguments with people who completely lost track of what we were talking about at some point. I think unnecessary arguments like that is a bigger problem than people who would use nested quotes when it isn't necessary.

    Also, aren't people already pretty good at deleting irrelevant stuff from the texts they're quoting? You're only supposed to use nested quotes when there's something relevant in the quote inside the quote. Most of the time you would just delete it. I think people are actually better at deleting irrelevant stuff from quotes than they are at realizing when they should go back and read a previous post.
     
  16. Jun 29, 2008 #15

    robphy

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    With all of the javascripting already in place, one might be able to
    not show all of the nested layers of quotes at first glance...
    but then allow it to be expanded upon on request.
     
  17. Jun 29, 2008 #16

    Moonbear

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    Yes, this is the reason we don't have embedded quotes. Especially novices leave all the embedded quotes (and deleting them out manually makes more chances to introduce errors to what was quoted).
    I disagree. If someone has lost track of the argument and can't refer back a bit to get back on track, that's their problem. Nested quotes get annoying very quickly.

    :rofl: Take a look at any forum that includes the nested quotes, and draw your own conclusion.

    I disagree. And, if the previously quoted content is really relevant, use the multi quote feature to preserve both of the quoted sections. If it's that important, it's worth the extra step of finding the originally quoted post and quoting that with the one you're replying to. In case you didn't know, the multi quote button works across multiple pages of a thread, so you can go back a page, click multi quote, go to the next page, click again for some other post, and when you're done with everything you want to quote, click the regular quote button.

    As for people needing more than 30 min to edit, if one is making that many errors or that large of errors when posting to need so much time to go back and fix them, they really should spend more time either proofreading in the preview panel or composing offline, or perhaps simply thinking about what they're writing before they hit "submit." Sure, on a rare occasion, someone will realize an error later on (like a link that points to the wrong place), but that's easily remedied with a note of correction later in the thread, or by asking a mentor to fix the problem. If it's more than a really rare problem or minor typos, then spend more time thinking before sending.
     
  18. Jun 29, 2008 #17
    If it were that simple then I never would have posted this request.
     
  19. Jun 30, 2008 #18

    Hootenanny

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    How is that not simple, what's the problem with using the report button?
     
  20. Jun 30, 2008 #19
    It could take a while for the problem to be corrected and in the mean time it could interupt the flow of a conversation by requiring the poster to go back and repost the same thing thus interupting a conversation and allowing it to get a bit confusing. Plus its frustrating. Its not like a persom wants to wait until the problem is fixed so they can't be expected to sit by the post and wait.

    As I said - not simple.
     
  21. Jun 30, 2008 #20

    Hootenanny

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    Whilst that is true, I think that editing posts onces subsequent replies have been made would only leave to more confusion and further disrupt that flow of conversation. I have said this before, but in my opinion editing should not be allowed once a subsequent reply has been posted. The author of the subsequent post has based his/her reply on the original post and by editing the original post it may make the replies seem confusing and disrupts the flow of the whole thread. If clarification or correction is needed, then you should clarify your point or make your correct in a new post, this preserves the logical chronological order of comments and avoids any confusion.
     
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