Academic PEDs

[gravenewworld]

Should schools and organizations start drug testing students to monitor abuse of drugs like adderall, which is widely used recreationally by lots of kids to boost test scores?

 

[Jack21222]

No..

 

[micromass]

No...

 

[Proton Soup]

no. schools, organizations, and people in general should learn to mind their own bleeping business.

 

[bp_psy]

So there be no PDEs here?

 

[phinds]

I have no idea what a "PDE" is (when I went to school it was Partial Differential Equation) but I say NO to having schools stick there noses in student's business (unless they're carrying guns to class, in which case I'll happily make an exception)

 

[GregJ]

I think, not. Privacy in ones life is already minimal.

 

[Evo]

They check athletes for drugs that artificially enhance their performance, so I would not be against it in schools.

I just don't think it's feasible to do it among such a large population.

I dislike cheaters.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

No, it's not a competition, if they want to take something to boost their scores it's their own problem.

 

[QuarkCharmer]

Are students that actually make an effort doing this? I thought it was some silly thing for people to take and cram for a test the night before.

 

[Willowz]

I don't think it would be hard to check for psycho-stimulants and have it cheap at the same time. I wonder if the contraction speed of the iris is affected by such stimulants.

 

[Proton Soup]

No, it's not a competition, if they want to take something to boost their scores it's their own problem.

exactly. this is not some game. most people are coming to learn what will essentially be their trade, not some trinket to hang on the mantle. in fact, one of the best, and most intelligent teachers i ever had did not view it as a competition either. his attitude was, if everyone in his course does "A" work, then everyone gets an "A".

and, it's not just about boosting scores. i drink coffee every day. and if I'm taking a course, especially so. it helps me pay attention and retain information. it's about actually learning the material. it's not about winning the National Boggle Championship.

 

[Mororvia]

To most of us, school is not competitive. Though I tend to do better if there is some sort of competition among friends (this was discussed in another thread). I've heard med students can be pretty cut throat though!

In any event, I don't think taking a drug used for AD(H)D should be considered cheating. You still have to know the material, yes?

 

[Willowz]

exactly. this is not some game. most people are coming to learn what will essentially be their trade, not some trinket to hang on the mantle. in fact, one of the best, and most intelligent teachers i ever had did not view it as a competition either. his attitude was, if everyone in his course does "A" work, then everyone gets an "A".

and, it's not just about boosting scores. i drink coffee every day. and if I'm taking a course, especially so. it helps me pay attention and retain information. it's about actually learning the material. it's not about winning the National Boggle Championship.

Oh, what if these were people who would become doctors one day that might operate on you? Would you put your trust in a person who took adderall to pass his or her entrance exam, and then later forget the information they learned in a week?

 

[Evo]

Of course it's a competition, you're competing to get into college, and it's cheating, if you couldn't score as well without the drug.

People that use it are dishonest. They use the drug to appear smarter than they really are. Coffee is a mild stimulant that doesn't even affect many people (I am one of those people).

 

[micromass]

Of course it's a competition, you're competing to get into college, and it's cheating, if you couldn't score as well without the drug.

People that use it are dishonest. They use the drug to appear smarter than they really are. Coffee is a mild stimulant that doesn't even affect many people (I am one of those people).

I'm quite ignorant on the issue, but how does the drug let people appear smarter?? I thought that the only effect involved was that people could concentrate better and for longer periods of times. A bit like coffee of red bull.

I don't think a drug could actually make people smarter. Could it??

 

[wuliheron]

I'm sure if it ever becomes an issue that tarnishes the reputation of universities or threatens the public welfare people will insist on mandatory testing. The same with mandatory testing of the public for STDs or whatever. If it becomes an issue then I'm sure people will address it, but until then its just a waste of money and higher education is expensive enough.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

I'm quite ignorant on the issue, but how does the drug let people appear smarter?? I thought that the only effect involved was that people could concentrate better and for longer periods of times. A bit like coffee of red bull.

I don't think a drug could actually make people smarter. Could it??

It cannot, you are just able to concentrate and consequently learn better. You don't get sleepy also.
So yes, I would operate with a doctor that made an effort to learn more.

It's not some magic pill that slackers take to be able to pass a test without knowing the content.

 

[Proton Soup]

Oh, what if these were people who would become doctors one day that might operate on you? Would you put your trust in a person who took adderall to pass his or her entrance exam, and then later forget the information they learned in a week?

i'm not assuming they're learning all their material in a week.

 

[hyde2042]

Oh, what if these were people who would become doctors one day that might operate on you? Would you put your trust in a person who took adderall to pass his or her entrance exam, and then later forget the information they learned in a week?

If it's an entrance exam, then it's not going to matter. If it's the USMLE, that's different. You need to know why and how everything is affecting the people. It's not as simple as memorizing a word and its definition. So I would imagine that is a safe bet, letting them operate on you.

 

[Evo]

It makes them appear smarter on tests (it does not make them smarter) because of the following

Performance Effects: Doses of 10-30 mg methamphetamine have shown to improve reaction time, relief fatigue, improve cognitive function testing, increase subjective feelings of alertness, increase time estimation,

http://www.nhtsa.gov/people/injury/research/job185drugs/methamphetamine.htm

But like I said, it's not feasible to test for it.

 

[Cuauhtemoc]

Fair enough, but I don't think this is the main reason people take it. In my opinion is to be able to study more before the test.

 

[Evo]

Fair enough, but I don't think this is the main reason people take it. In my opinion is to be able to study more before the test.

I'm not aware that it helps to retain knowledge.

 

[hyde2042]

Fair enough, but I don't think this is the main reason people take it. In my opinion is to be able to study more before the test.

Same. I also get less frustrated with a problem. With it, it's more like, "Oh, I spent all this time and got it wrong. Hmm. I wonder what I did wrong. I'll retrace my steps and recalculate"

Without it, "Gaaaah!" and it's hard to even think straight about why it's wrong. I can't even look at the problem anymore in depth. I stare at it as a whole, like one giant convoluted mess.

I've only gotten it from friends. I'd like to have a prescription but I'd also like to be able to study like that without relying on medication more.

 

[hyde2042]

I'm not aware that it helps to retain knowledge.

Perhaps he/she meant time. As in being able to concentrate for a longer period. At least that's what I assumed.

 

[Evo]

Amazing (pathetic) that we seem to be breeding a culture of students using methamphetamines because they can't do it on their own.

What's worse is that people are ok with getting doped up on meth.

So when do the drugs stop? You get hired and you can't keep up at work, so you do more meth, but your body is getting used to it, so you need more meth.

 

[micromass]

Amazing (pathetic) that we seem to be breeding a culture of students using methamphetamines because they can't do it on their own.

What's worse is that people are ok with getting doped up on meth.

Agreed. I did not realize that those products contained meth. I guess that's what a competitive climate does to people

 

[lompocus]

Hmm. This is boring; the OP posed a question the community is unanimously responding "no" to. I'd rather like to hear something horrible and attention-grabbing, like all the horrible things that have happened to people who abuse these drugs! Where are the manically depressed people scrawling insanity like whoever owned my last used textbook? >:D (Although those turned out to be beatles lyrics... beatles + vector calculus + drug + depression = ...?)

Anyway, I think that it's a slippery slope one jumps on (and then slips on, then falls into, then probably slides through) as soon as they stick themselves in a situation that requires heavy use of a drug. It's my (likely skewed) opinion that someone like that is inefficient in most things, and a poor person to trust with any sort of responsibility in many situations.

No, I don't think like some others in this thread are thinking. To me, that person (over there, yes, you!) is not someone I would consider a dedicated, hard worker. Now, if they're like a person I will soon link to, then we are talking about something entirely different from stressed college students: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paul_Erdős

*after reading the last few comments, I wonder why drug stories are always attached to math. Why aren't there more people on [insert some amphetamine here] trying to memorize some esoteric philosopher's ideas?!*

 

[Mororvia]

They check athletes for drugs that artificially enhance their performance, so I would not be against it in schools.

I just don't think it's feasible to do it among such a large population.

I dislike cheaters.

Fair enough, but I don't think this is the main reason people take it. In my opinion is to be able to study more before the test.

I'm not aware that it helps to retain knowledge.

I don't think this is artificially enhancing performance. It would be an interesting study to see how learning is affected while 'under the influence'. Is the ability to retain knowledge increased, decreased, or stays the same? If it stays the same, then it should not be considered cheating because clearly it just helps you with concentration while studying. If it decreases, that is cheating because after a short time your knowledge of the information will be gone. If it is actually increased, I'm sure they'll find a way to sneak it into every day food products!

 

[Evo]

I don't think this is artificially enhancing performance. It would be an interesting study to see how learning is affected while 'under the influence'. Is the ability to retain knowledge increased, decreased, or stays the same? If it stays the same, then it should not be considered cheating because clearly it just helps you with concentration while studying. If it decreases, that is cheating because after a short time your knowledge of the information will be gone. If it is actually increased, I'm sure they'll find a way to sneak it into every day food products!

It's cheating when used during a test.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3528848&postcount=21

 

[Proton Soup]

it's not meth, it's amphetamine. learn to read. or at least take some adderall, first. ;)

edit: oh, i see, there is also Desoxyn, which is meth. but that is not one you hear much about, is it?

also, I've never taken either of these, even though i think it is none of my business. I've been using caffeine and pseudoephedrine since i was about 16. and i also have a niece that is currently undergoing evaluation for her hyperactivity, and we're not sure what kind of meds she may be expected to take. she is noticeably hyper, though, and probably something organic, since she used to have seizures.

 

[micromass]

It's cheating when used during a test.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3528848&postcount=21

I don't think most people would use it during a test. Most people take it when learning material. Such a drug help people to concentrate longer and so they can learn more material.

It remains cheating, however.

 

[Evo]

I don't think most people would use it during a test. Most people take it when learning material. Such a drug help people to concentrate longer and so they can learn more material.

It remains cheating, however.

The OP is about taking it to boost test scores.

 

[micromass]

The OP is about taking it to boost test scores.

Exactly. Being able to learn more the days before the exam will certainly boost your test scores more than if you didn't take the drug...

 

[Proton Soup]

It's cheating when used during a test.

https://www.physicsforums.com/showpost.php?p=3528848&postcount=21

you need to define what those things mean. what is this "cognitive functioning" you speak of? i can find studies that back up the use of B-12 to increase performance, but it's a processing speed increase, not intelligence or anything like that.