Acceptable civilian casualties

  • News
  • Thread starter Hurkyl
  • Start date
  • #126
4
0
Smurf said:
In france they banned headscarfs, along with other religious symbols.
This is them trying to be a 'secular state' not descriminating, or waging war, muslims is it.
If you would read the news more often you would learn that

1) the ban in France was issued by the government, not through a lawsuit by an individual.
2) the ban in France was aimed at ALL religion, Islam, Judaism and Christian, and not just Islam
3) The Christians are not taking hostages and threating to cut off heads, unless the Cruifix is restored.
This is them trying to be a 'secular state' not descriminating, or waging war, muslims is it.
What did I say earlier?
Islam is at war with the West, the West is not at war with Islam.
 
  • #127
5
0
Outcast said:
Ishaq: 676 “‘You obey a stranger who encourages you to murder for booty. You are greedy men. Is there no honor among you?’ Upon hearing those lines Muhammad said, ‘Will no one rid me of this woman?’ Umayr, a zealous Muslim, decided to execute the Prophet’s wishes. That very night he crept into the writer’s home while she lay sleeping surrounded by her young children. There was one at her breast. Umayr removed the suckling babe and then plunged his sword into the poet.

The next morning in the mosque, Muhammad, who was aware of the assassination, said, ‘You have helped Allah and His Apostle.’ Umayr said, ‘She had five sons; should I feel guilty?’

‘No,’ the Prophet answered. ‘Killing her was as meaningless as two goats butting heads.’”
And you took this from where? Many Hadith and other islamic writings are considered falsified bull**** by muslims. I dont know where you got this quote from, but are you sure this is considered authentic?
 
  • #128
4
0
studentx said:
And you took this from where? Many Hadith and other islamic writings are considered falsified bull**** by muslims. I dont know where you got this quote from, but are you sure this is considered authentic?
Yes I am sure or I would not have posted it. I am too use to writing term papers to not be able to defend my position. I don't have to make up lies about Muhammad. He is really a vile immoral person. I first ran across that verse in Prophet of Doom: Islam's Terrorist Dogma in Muhammad's Own Words
Editors Review
Craig Winn's controversial and inflammatory work, Prophet of Doom, begins with this statement: "Islam is a caustic blend of regurgitated paganism and twisted Bible stories.
I didn't think anyone on here would accept him as creditable source.

I then found Muhammad
by Maxime Rodinson, Anne Carter. The editor review said
A definitive and fascinating introduction to the life, ideas, and impact of the founder of Islam. Maxime Rodinson's Muhammad has long been regarded as one of the touchstones of scholarship on the founder of Islam.
He too made reference to the same verse. It is much harder to dismiss him as a hate monger.
You can read the whole thing in context
MUHAMMAD AND THE DEATH OF ASMA BINT MARWAN. You may not like the website, but its the same verses that Rodinson mentioned.

Now do you want to hear about Muhammad being a pedophile?
 
  • #129
356
3
Once Again:
Islam condemns the slaughter of innocents and prohibits suicide. Nothing will be solved by searching for ‘true Islam’ or quoting the Qur'an. The Qur'an is a vast, vague book, filled with poetry and contradictions (much like the Bible). You can find in it condemnations of war and incitements to struggle, beautiful expressions of tolerance and stern pictures against unbelievers. Quotations from it usually tell us more about the person who selected the passages than about Islam. Every religion is compatible with the best and the worst of humankind.
 
  • #130
5
0
Smurf said:
Once Again:
Islam condemns the slaughter of innocents and prohibits suicide. Nothing will be solved by searching for ‘true Islam’ or quoting the Qur'an. The Qur'an is a vast, vague book, filled with poetry and contradictions (much like the Bible). You can find in it condemnations of war and incitements to struggle, beautiful expressions of tolerance and stern pictures against unbelievers. Quotations from it usually tell us more about the person who selected the passages than about Islam. Every religion is compatible with the best and the worst of humankind.
The Quran makes up about 1% of islamic literature, even tho the book says it should be the only one.The lifes of both messengers, Jesus and Muhammed are completely opposite of each other, and Muhammed isnt the peaceful one. Theres quite a big difference between what the Quran says and the story of Muhammeds life.
 
Last edited:
  • #131
4
0
Smurf said:
Once Again:
Islam condemns the slaughter of innocents and prohibits suicide. Nothing will be solved by searching for ‘true Islam’ or quoting the Qur'an. The Qur'an is a vast, vague book, filled with poetry and contradictions (much like the Bible). You can find in it condemnations of war and incitements to struggle, beautiful expressions of tolerance and stern pictures against unbelievers. Quotations from it usually tell us more about the person who selected the passages than about Islam. Every religion is compatible with the best and the worst of humankind.
filled with poetry and contradictions (much like the Bible).
Tell me about all these "contradictions" in the Biblical teachings. The Bible was written over a period of 1500 years by 40 diffrent men. The Ouar was written in 22 years by one man. You would think one man could keep his story straight.

Yes men do pervert the teachings of Christ for their own evil ends, but men do not have to pervert the teaching of Islam. Islam is already perverted. Yahweh is the God of the Bible. Allah is the god of the Quran. The two are not the same.

Look at the life of Jesus or Buddha and you will find nothing like what you see in the life of Muhammad. Were Jesus or Buddha pedophiles, Muhammad was. Did Christ or Buddha ever have their critics assassinated, Muhammad did. Did Christ or Buddha ever lead their follower on raid, to kill, to rape, to pillage, to gain slaves, Muhammad did. All the fine words and poetry that were plagiarized from the Bible are meaningless, when you are being robed and killed, you wife and daughter is being raped and sold into slavery. Of course Islam condemns the slaughter of innocents, its hard to rape the dead and to sell them into slavery.

To be Christian is to be Christ like.
To be Buddhist is to be Buddha like.
To be Muslim is to be Muhammad like. And you see what Muhammad was like. That is what the Western World is facing today, what if first faced almost 1400 ago. Islam has not changed since the death of Muhammad.

My heart does go out to the Muslims of the world who worship in ignorance. Is it any wonder that Islam will tolerate no other religion the way other religions do. Islam cannot stand up to the light of truth.
John 8:32
Then you will know the truth, and the truth will set you free."
I pray that someday they will know the truth and become free.
 
  • #132
selfAdjoint
Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Dearly Missed
6,786
7
It's ironic that on this view, Christians have never been consistently able to emulate Jesus, who preached to the good side of humanity, but Muslims have had no trouble emulating Mohammed, who preached to the dark side.

I repeat that this comment is entirely contingent on Outcast's view of Islam, and I do not necessarily endorse that. I would like a specific source in the Islamic scriptures for that woman-murder story. Reminds me of Henry II and Thomas a Becket, with the wrong ending.
 
  • #133
4
0
selfAdjoint said:
It's ironic that on this view, Christians have never been consistently able to emulate Jesus, who preached to the good side of humanity, but Muslims have had no trouble emulating Mohammed, who preached to the dark side.

I repeat that this comment is entirely contingent on Outcast's view of Islam, and I do not necessarily endorse that. I would like a specific source in the Islamic scriptures for that woman-murder story. Reminds me of Henry II and Thomas a Becket, with the wrong ending.
What type of specfic source would you like?

Ishaq: 676
 
  • #134
1,490
22
Outcast said:
Yahweh is the God of the Bible. Allah is the god of the Quran. The two are not the same.
Both are the God of Abraham. Abraham had only one God. They are the same.

Quit trying to talk like you intimately know this religion. You apparently do not.
 
  • #135
356
3
Outcast said:
To be Christian is to be Christ like.
To be Buddhist is to be Buddha like.
To be Muslim is to be Muhammad like.
You forgot:
To be American is to be Bush like.


question: Does Judaism have a prophet?
 
  • #136
1,490
22
Smurf said:
question: Does Judaism have a prophet?
Many. Moses, Noah, Daniel, Joseph, Isaiah, Elijah, Elisha, Jonah, were a few. Jesus was even considered by many Jews as a prophet (they don't believe he was more than that). The word prophet basically means to speak for God.
 
  • #137
4
0
Artman said:
Both are the God of Abraham. Abraham had only one God. They are the same.

Quit trying to talk like you intimately know this religion. You apparently do not.
I may not be intimate with Islam, but it seems I know more about it than you do. Just because the Arabs trace their ancestry back to Abraham through Ishmael, does not make Allah the God of Abraham. Yes, Abraham did worship one God, but Allah was not that god.

So you are saying that Christ is the son of Allah? And the Jews and Christians actually worship Allah without knowing it?
 
  • #138
4
0
Smurf said:
You forgot:
To be American is to be Bush like.


question: Does Judaism have a prophet?
There was two class, major and minor prophets.
They were the ones that spent 1400 years writing the Bible. Interesting people. I don't believe any of them ask for the job and some tried to get out of it. None got rich doing it.


And to be Canadian is to be Martin like.
 
  • #139
5
0
Outcast said:
I may not be intimate with Islam, but it seems I know more about it than you do. Just because the Arabs trace their ancestry back to Abraham through Ishmael, does not make Allah the God of Abraham. Yes, Abraham did worship one God, but Allah was not that god.

So you are saying that Christ is the son of Allah? And the Jews and Christians actually worship Allah without knowing it?
Actually it is the same god. You didnt read the Quran did you?
 
  • #140
4
0
studentx said:
Actually it is the same god. You didnt read the Quran did you?
Yes , I have and Muhammad may have made that claim, but anyone one that is familiar with the Bible and the Quarn can easily see that they can't possible be the same. For example compare the story of the creation in the Bible with the story of creation in the Quarn. Why would Yahweh give Muhammad several different conflicting version of the creation? Also why would Yahweh change His name to Allah?
 
  • #141
5
0
Outcast said:
Yes , I have and Muhammad may have made that claim, but anyone one that is familiar with the Bible and the Quarn can easily see that they can't possible be the same. For example compare the story of the creation in the Bible with the story of creation in the Quarn. Why would Yahweh give Muhammad several different conflicting version of the creation? Also why would Yahweh change His name to Allah?
This isnt about you or your views. Like i said before, the more you study Islam the less you understand the giant majority of muslims.

Muslims believe they worship the same god as Jews and Christians. The Quran says that Christians and Jews have nothing to fear as long as they believe in Allah. Allah is arabic for one god, and there could be many reasons he wanted to be called like that. Especially since many ppl see Jesus as a god and Islam supposedly corrects this "mistake".
Also you forget that Muslims believe the bible has been falsified or corrupted over the years and the Quran corrects it and supercedes all previous scriptures. Yahweh didnt give Muhammed conflicting versions of creation, that was just a piece corruption by the Jews;)
 
  • #142
1,490
22
Outcast said:
So you are saying that Christ is the son of Allah? And the Jews and Christians actually worship Allah without knowing it?
Yeah, ain't that a kick in the head. Your knowledge of this religion seems to be culled from Islam hate sites. It's off-topic, biased, and does not reflect the views of the majority of Muslims. They say it's a religion of peace and you claim, through your conservative-Christian-point-of-view to say that it is one of hate.

I don't claim to know their religion. My claim is that a cursury study of any religion will not give much insight into the heart of its true practitioners. In fact, even people studying the books of their own religion often miss the point because of a lack of indepth knowledge of the author, the time it was written, the events surrounding it creation, how the work was interpreted, and how the modern audience finds inspiration in the passage.

What you see as a passage of hate can be interpreted totally different by someone else. Ask ten different people to read a passage from the Bible and you will get ten different interpretations.

Get back on topic, what has this to do with the acceptable number of casualties?
 
  • #143
russ_watters
Mentor
19,878
6,297
This duscussion is probably too far religious, but the way I see the "who'se god?" issue is pretty simple:

-The Jews worship one God.
-The Christians worship one God and are a branch off of Judaism.
-The Muslims worship one God and are a branch off of Judaism.

Therefore, they all worship the same god, just in different ways. Isn't that logical?

You could even take it a step further to say that if there is one god, then anyone who worships one god worships the same god. Its kinda axiomatic.

In any case, the 3 major religions I noted above are so similar in their roots, there is no reason why they shouldn't be able to coexist.
 
Last edited:
  • #144
356
3
Exactly!!
outcast said:
And to be Canadian is to be Martin like
my point being that I'm NOT like martin, americans ARN'T all like bush and muslims ARN'T all like muhammed, christians ARN'T like christ and jews ARN'T like any of their major prohpets.
 

Related Threads on Acceptable civilian casualties

  • Poll
  • Last Post
2
Replies
32
Views
3K
  • Last Post
Replies
24
Views
4K
  • Last Post
Replies
12
Views
2K
Replies
52
Views
6K
Replies
127
Views
16K
Replies
4
Views
1K
Replies
19
Views
5K
Replies
6
Views
2K
Replies
76
Views
6K
Top