- #1
kurious
- 641
- 0
Dragonflies can create 20 times the lift/weight ratio of an aircraft by using turbulent air which passes from one set of wings to another.Why don't we give airplanes a second set of wings to do the same?
Adding a Second Set of Wings to Aircrafts: Benefits and Challenges
In summary, the study found that it is possible to fly with flapping wings, though they are inefficient and drag would be a problem. It is still a long way before this technology could be used in human-sized crafts.
- #2
enigma
Staff Emeritus
Science Advisor
Gold Member
- 1,757
- 17
Because dragonfly wings flap.
Research into ornithopters is currently going on. I'm not sure if they are sophisticated enough yet to have a control system to take advantage of two sets of wings.
Research into ornithopters is currently going on. I'm not sure if they are sophisticated enough yet to have a control system to take advantage of two sets of wings.
- #3
faust9
- 692
- 2
Because dragonflies utilize the movement of the wings to generate vortices that travel down the LE of their wings. Its more than just the turbulent flow passing from one wing to the next.
watch the gif at the top of this site:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/March00/APS_Wang.hrs.html
And read this:
http://www.physicstoday.com/pt/vol-53/iss-12/p22.html
Would you fly in an airplane with wings that moved like that?
BiPlanes are an old concept but they have a limiting flaw--drag. Without the figure 8 motion to produce and utilize the turbulent air the second set of wings would add a substantial amount of drag.
P.S. I'm not an aeronautical engineer or physicist so take the above with a grain of salt.
watch the gif at the top of this site:
http://www.news.cornell.edu/releases/March00/APS_Wang.hrs.html
And read this:
http://www.physicstoday.com/pt/vol-53/iss-12/p22.html
Would you fly in an airplane with wings that moved like that?
BiPlanes are an old concept but they have a limiting flaw--drag. Without the figure 8 motion to produce and utilize the turbulent air the second set of wings would add a substantial amount of drag.
P.S. I'm not an aeronautical engineer or physicist so take the above with a grain of salt.
Last edited by a moderator:
- #4
Robert Korobelnik
- 3
- 0
R/C Mechanical flying Dragonfly
R/C Mechanical flying Dragonfly
Video, photos
http://ovirc.free.fr/ornithopteres_ovirk.php
Regards
Robert Korobelnik
http://ovirc.free.fr
R/C Mechanical flying Dragonfly
Video, photos
http://ovirc.free.fr/ornithopteres_ovirk.php
Regards
Robert Korobelnik
http://ovirc.free.fr
Attachments
- #5
RAD4921
- 347
- 1
Biplanes
Planes with two wings were developed in the early part of last century, though the wings themselves didn't flap like an insect.
Some early experimenters with flight tried the flapping method for flight to no avail. Using flapping wings to try and create lift is very inefficient method for heavy objects such as airplanes. I don't know where you got these ratios but
a dragonfly is much much lighter than a human.
Planes with two wings were developed in the early part of last century, though the wings themselves didn't flap like an insect.
Some early experimenters with flight tried the flapping method for flight to no avail. Using flapping wings to try and create lift is very inefficient method for heavy objects such as airplanes. I don't know where you got these ratios but
a dragonfly is much much lighter than a human.
Last edited:
- #6
Robert Korobelnik
- 3
- 0
Flapping Wings
Objective is to prove by a model that flight with flapping wings is practicable.
Leonardo da Vinci had no current materials composits (Carbon, fiberglass etc.)
The already model shows that it is possible .The necessary power is lower than that of a classic plane of the same weight by disregarding the Cx.
For the human transport it is still UTOPIA.
Robert Korobelnik
http://ovirc.free.fr
Objective is to prove by a model that flight with flapping wings is practicable.
Leonardo da Vinci had no current materials composits (Carbon, fiberglass etc.)
The already model shows that it is possible .The necessary power is lower than that of a classic plane of the same weight by disregarding the Cx.
For the human transport it is still UTOPIA.
Robert Korobelnik
http://ovirc.free.fr
- #7
salamander
- 43
- 0
Can they hover? Can they be made fast? Cab they be made big?
- #8
Robert Korobelnik
- 3
- 0
Can they hover? yes
Can they be made fast? Yes and so bought ready to fly
Cab they be made big? Certainly in a few years
Can they be made fast? Yes and so bought ready to fly
Cab they be made big? Certainly in a few years
- #9
russ_watters
Mentor
- 23,156
- 10,354
Aerodynamics for small airfoils is different than for large ones. Structural loadings scale as well. Because of these two issues, flapping wings will not scale to human-sized craft.
1. What are the potential benefits of adding a second set of wings to aircrafts?
Adding a second set of wings, also known as a biplane configuration, can provide several benefits for aircrafts, such as:
- Increased lift: The second set of wings can provide additional lift, allowing the aircraft to carry more weight and take off and land at shorter distances.
- Better maneuverability: Biplane configurations can have better roll and pitch control, allowing for tighter turns and more precise maneuvers.
- Improved stability: The two sets of wings can work together to provide better stability, especially in turbulent conditions.
- Reduced drag: Biplane configurations can have lower drag compared to single-wing designs, resulting in improved fuel efficiency and longer flight range.
- Potential for higher speeds: In certain cases, biplane configurations can achieve higher speeds due to their improved lift and stability.
2. Are there any potential drawbacks to adding a second set of wings to aircrafts?
While there are several potential benefits, there are also some challenges and drawbacks to adding a second set of wings to aircrafts, including:
- Increased weight: The addition of a second set of wings will add weight to the aircraft, which can decrease its overall performance and fuel efficiency.
- Higher production costs: Biplane configurations are more complex and require more materials, resulting in higher production costs for the aircraft.
- Limited space: The addition of a second set of wings can limit the space available for other components and systems, potentially affecting the design and functionality of the aircraft.
- Potential for increased drag: While biplane configurations can have lower drag, they can also experience increased drag in certain flight conditions, which can affect the aircraft's speed and efficiency.
3. Have any aircrafts been successfully designed with a biplane configuration?
Yes, there have been several successful aircrafts designed with a biplane configuration, including the famous World War I fighter plane, the Sopwith Camel. Other notable examples include the Boeing Stearman biplane used for training pilots during World War II and the modern aerobatic aircraft, the Pitts Special.
4. How does adding a second set of wings affect the overall design and structure of the aircraft?
The addition of a second set of wings can significantly impact the design and structure of an aircraft. Biplane configurations require additional support structures, such as struts and wires, to connect the two sets of wings. This can add complexity and weight to the design, and also require more rigorous testing and maintenance.
5. Are there any ongoing research or developments in the use of biplane configurations for modern aircrafts?
Yes, there is ongoing research and development in the use of biplane configurations for modern aircrafts. Some current projects include the development of biplane drones for military and civilian use, as well as the exploration of biplane designs for hybrid-electric aircrafts. Researchers are also studying ways to optimize the design and reduce the drawbacks of biplane configurations, such as by using advanced materials and aerodynamic techniques.
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