News African Debt Relief

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Animal husbandry applied to human populations

Townsend said:
can the g be increased by mixing with high g genes?
Yes. But it might be said that the nations would no longer be sub-Saharan African nations. They would be genetically-engineered sub-Saharan African nations.

If you wanted to modify the genetic course of sub-Saharan Africa, you would have more options than that, though. You might breed the sub-Saharan African populations down to extinction and replace them with populations that have already proven themselves to be economically and scientifically competent. Or you might breed the sub-Saharan African populations in such a way as to raise their IQs, decrease their field-dependence, increase their cognitive mobilty, decrease their extroversion, and decrease their psychoticism (i.e., breed them to be good citizens, scientists, leaders, and businessmen) -- all without introducing new genes.



Townsend said:
should it be done?
That would depend upon the mission criteria of the given enterprise. The original topic of this thread, however, was the elimination of poverty and corruption in sub-Saharan Africa, which could be accomplished by ignoring trade and industrialization altogether and permanently hospitalizing the entire sub-continent (as Raymond Cattell pointed out here).
 
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Pengwuino

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Archon said:
I think you're having a problem with the concept of "cause and effect." As you surely recall, 9/11 happened before these incidents, which would indicate that they were not, as you say, responsible for the attacks on the WTC.
Well that wasnt the complaint charged against me. It was illogical but might as well argue it since case and effect werent necessarily in question. The magnitude of "crimes" committed by the US or terrorists was in question and that was the only real focus required as im sure we could have had the same argument if TSM brought up a pre-9/11 case. Of course, that would require him to leave his mainstream propoganda feeding so i wouldn't have expected it.

Archon said:
As for the second sentace: could you please clarify what you're saying, because I really can't make sense of it.
Its just an ironic joke making fun of the fact that they get pissed off at us doing something that they did 3x as much.
 

Pengwuino

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Townsend said:
Hardly... :rofl:

http://www.childrenofmillennium.org/eugenics/pages/articles/IQStatesMap.gif
My state is very blue and very agricultural.

Seems to put the blue states at a high IQ score to me. But it does not matter....
haha better watch out with that map. Theres a fake "blue state vs. red state IQ sample" going around the web that someone made up with some very unscientific data as a campaign ploy for the election. Some people will just stick that low.
 
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Steve Sailer's US state IQ data vs the internet hoax

Pengwuino said:
better watch out with that map. Theres a fake "blue state vs. red state IQ sample" going around
That map uses data compiled by Steve Sailer. Here is Sailer's article from which the data for the map was taken:
vdare.com/sailer/041114_iq.htm

It mentions the hoax.

--
Since the election, the Internet has been swamped by that phony-baloney table of average IQs by state that I debunked in VDARE.COM way back in May—you know, the one where blue states have average IQs as high as 113 and red states have average IQs as low as 85.
--
 

Pengwuino

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haha why are people so full of hate that they make up IQ graphs to put other people down after their animal lost the election.
 
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The g factor predicts educational outcome better than any other single construct, and the populations of undeveloped nations tend to be low on the g factor.
Unbelievable, so you are saying that the Africans are stupid, and thus cannot trade equally??? this is total crap! We Manipluate them, so they cannot trade equally, this is why, nothing to do with intelegence... Go to london City and see how many "africans" there are in high powered Jobs, that require the "g" factor!

I'll give you an example:

"The scale of government support to America’s 25,000 cotton farmers is staggering, reflecting the political influence of corporate farm lobbies in key states. Every acre of cotton farmland in the US attracts a subsidy of $230, or around five times the transfer for cereals. In 2001/02 farmers reaped a bumper harvest of subsidies amounting to $3.9bn – double the level in 1992. This increase in subsidies is a breach of the ‘Peace Clause’ in the WTO Agreement on Agriculture, opening the door to the Brazilian complaint."

Source Oxfam NON-profit organisation, with Nothing to gain from publishing this material.
http://www.oxfam.org.uk/what_we_do/issues/trade/bp30_cotton.htm

Now if you cant afford to feed yourself let alone pay for a good education, how on earth are you supposed to get the "G" factor?
 
A

Art

The g factor predicts educational outcome better than any other single construct, and the populations of undeveloped nations tend to be low on the g factor.
It would appear the authors of the report are also lacking somewhat in the g factor given the shoddy methodology they employed in developing their model. A not too uncommon consequence of fixing the data to support a theory.
National IQ estimates
Central to the book's thesis, and perhaps one of its most controversial parts, is a tabulation of what Lynn and Vanhanen believe to be the average IQs of the world's nations. Rather than do their own IQ studies (a potentially massive project), the authors average and adjust existing studies.

The figures were obtained by taking unweighted averages of different IQ tests. The number of studies is very limited; the IQ figure is based on one study in 34 nations, two studies in 30 nations. The number of subjects in each study were usually limited, often numbering under a few hundred. The exceptions to this were the United States and Japan, for which studies using more than several thousand subjects are available. Studies that were averaged together often used different methods of IQ testing, different scales for IQ values and/or were done decades apart.

There are also errors in the raw data presented by authors. The results from Vinko Buj's 1981 study used different scaling than Lynn and Vanhanen. Also, Buj's original IQ figures in Ireland, Norway and Greece differ from the figures given by Lynn and Vanhanen.

They also adjusted the figures relative to the baseline of UK results, which was taken as 100. When the overall population of the sample countries is taken into account, the mean IQ of the world as indicated by these figures is about 90, which is different than the standard calibration, which sets the mean IQ of any total population at 100.

To account for the Flynn effect (an increase in IQ scores over time), the authors sometimes adjust the results of older studies upward by an arbitrary number of points. Because of the arbitrary adjustments and the fact that only limited data are available for most nations, the figures given should be considered estimates and can reasonably be expected to vary by about 10 or 15 points in either direction.

It should be noted that there is controversy about whether IQ is a valid measurement of intelligence, especially among third-world populations. See the article at IQ for details, as well as the article Race and intelligence. In particular, note that most individuals in a given country will not have the country's average IQ, and that it is generally agreed that many factors, including environment, culture, demographics, wealth, pollution, and educational opportunities, affect measured IQ.
And for the 104 countries where there were no figures at all available they simply averaged the IQs of surrounding countries with adjustments to cater for their personal racial predjudice. Hmm very scientific. http://www.irelandinformationguide.com/List_of_countries_by_IQ [Broken]

And here's a peer review publication
Abstract
Recently Richard Lynn and Tatu Vanhanen have presented evidence that differences in national
IQ account for the substantial variation in national per capita income and growth. This paper
challenges these findings and claims that, firstly, they simply reflect inappropriate use and
interpretations of statistical instruments. Secondly, it is argued that the models presented by Lynn
and Vanhanen are under-complex and inadequately specified. More precisely the authors confuse
IQ with human capital. The paper concludes that once control variables are introduced and the
models are adequately specified, neither an impact of IQ on income nor on growth can be
substantiated.
http://www.suz.unizh.ch/volken/ThomasVolken/pdfs/IQWealthNation.pdf [Broken]

Eugenics is simply the pseudo-science developed to justify and salve the conscience of racists and bigots for the past couple of hundred years.
 
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Art said:
Eugenics is simply the pseudo-science developed to justify and salve the conscience of racists and bigots for the past couple of hundred years.
Good post....I agree.
 
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Lynn & Vanhanen XVII: Return to Volken

Art,

Your first link is a copy of this Wikipedia article:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_IQ


Your second link is to an article by Volken which has been discussed here at Physics Forums.
physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=390566&highlight=volken#post390566

physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=390499&highlight=volken#post390499

physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=11207&p=143698&highlight=volken

You quoted Volken as saying, "...the authors confuse IQ with human capital." I replied to that many months ago here at Physics Forums by saying:
hitssquad said:
Volken says, "...the authors [Lynn and Vanhanen] confuse IQ with human capital." As I pointed out in the Volken thread, that is a criticism of Arthur Jensen's The g Factor (1998), not of Lynn and Vanhanen. If Volken has an issue with IQ as a major factor in human capital, his issue is with Arthur Jensen's work, and therefore that is where he should be directing his investigations.
physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=390499&highlight=volken#post390499
 
A

Art

hitssquad said:
Art,

Your first link is a copy of this Wikipedia article:
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_IQ
So good they named it twice :biggrin:


hitssquad said:
After a quick scan of the posts referenced it seems the credibility of the theory IQ = economic success has already been tested and found wanting so why are you raising the issue again?? The base data and the assumptions used are still as invalid today as they were in the previous thread? :confused:

hitssquad said:
You quoted Volken as saying, "...the authors confuse IQ with human capital." I replied to that many months ago here at Physics Forums by saying:physicsforums.com/showthread.php?p=390499&highlight=volken#post390499
The site you originally referenced on this thread childrenofmillennium.org/science.htm is by it's own account a mish mash of various authors work on the subject with no clear credit given to any particular person for specific parts thus my response was to this amalgamation and so quotes rebutting the concept are valid no matter who made them or who they directed them against.

Bottom line, to avoid wasting further time reanalysing something that has already been beaten to death previously (per yr links) suffice to say as with previous generations attempts to apply this sort of twisted logic http://www.historyhouse.com/in_history/eugenics_1/ it's a load of crap.
 
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Anttech said:
Go to london City and see how many "africans" there are in high powered Jobs, that require the "g" factor
There seems to be income disparity by race in the United Kingdom.
statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=274

--
Minority ethnic groups have lower levels of household income than the White population....

Pakistani and Bangladeshi households were heavily reliant on social security benefits – which made up nearly a fifth (19 per cent) of their income. Benefits were also a considerable source of income for the Black group (15 per cent).
--
 
hitssquad said:
There seems to be income disparity by race in the United Kingdom.
statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=274

--
Minority ethnic groups have lower levels of household income than the White population....

Pakistani and Bangladeshi households were heavily reliant on social security benefits – which made up nearly a fifth (19 per cent) of their income. Benefits were also a considerable source of income for the Black group (15 per cent).
--
Are all of you people members of the BNP or the KKK?

I am at a loss to explain the deliberate tracking down of statistics attacking the population of Africa.

If anyone is surprised by the 'bad showing' in education or crime from people originating in 3rd world countries, you really have not understood the problem.

You certainly are not foing to find solutions there.

Shall we discuss Phrenology next?
 
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I've heard from PBS that money isn't the only problem. Part of it is because the governments there are extremely corrupt and the money goes to local warlords instead of those who really need it. Perhaps the debt relief should go straight to the people than through a bloated bureaucracy?

There is no point in money and supplies unless the supplies reach those in need.
 
A

Art

The Smoking Man said:
Are all of you people members of the BNP or the KKK?
It seems to be a fast growing trend in the US
The number of neo-Nazi and KKK groups rose by 40% in one year
http://www.rickross.com/reference/christian_identity/christianidentity19.html [Broken]
 
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motai said:
money isn't the only problem. Part of it is because the governments there are extremely corrupt and the money goes to local warlords instead of those who really need it.
Hence the topic of this thread is "how should we deal with African Poverty, and the corruption found in many Africa goverments right now?"
 
motai said:
I've heard from PBS that money isn't the only problem. Part of it is because the governments there are extremely corrupt and the money goes to local warlords instead of those who really need it. Perhaps the debt relief should go straight to the people than through a bloated bureaucracy?

There is no point in money and supplies unless the supplies reach those in need.
hitssquad said:
Hence the topic of this thread is "how should we deal with African Poverty, and the corruption found in many Africa goverments right now?"
Great ... After HOW much debate have we gone through to arrive at the conclusion that Geldoff arrived at about a decade ago???

GOD, we're so smart!!! :surprised
 
Pengwuino said:
That was one of hte unsubstantiated claims. No proof if i recall.

And there was one report where WATER got splashed onto the book. The urine one is a different claim.
LOL ...

According to the 'official story'.

A guard on duty went outside for a leak and being the incredibly well endowed marine that he was managed to have a large enough quantity of his urine blown through an air vent at this 'maximum security facility' prompting the replacement of the koran and the jumpsuit of the prisoner in question.:eek:

Will this guy be 'retired from the forces' or will they put him out to stud?

Now ... I love it when YOU answer.

We've gone from the Rumsfeld, 'No we would never do this type of thing because we train them better' to ... not the single incident that was reported in the news but multiple incidents (200 reported with few confirmed).

And of course, who do we have doing the investigations? :surprised
 
This IQ thing look like bull crap to me...How come India is in the bottom??? The indians are one of the most intellifent nations, one of the most advanced to, look anywhere for indian immigrants, brilliant in sciences, brilliant doctors and engineers...The huge population and povrety is their problem. I think...

motai said:
I've heard from PBS that money isn't the only problem. Part of it is because the governments there are extremely corrupt and the money goes to local warlords instead of those who really need it. Perhaps the debt relief should go straight to the people than through a bloated bureaucracy?
Exactly, there's a lot of corruption in Africa, that's a good point. In my opinion it'd help more if people were educated enough to distinguish bad lies of corrupted governors, for many years in many countries, ignorance was the major policy, people know nothign, just tell them a couple of big lies and they'll buy it and worship u forever...

This is much more powerfull than giving money.

Edit: If people were more educated they'll not be hungry for food, they'll strive for the truth, they'll need to know and understand mroe than anything else...
 

DM

154
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Exactly, there's a lot of corruption in Africa, that's a good point. In my opinion it'd help more if people were educated enough to distinguish bad lies of corrupted governors, for many years in many countries, ignorance was the major policy, people know nothign, just tell them a couple of big lies and they'll buy it and worship u forever...
I agree, corruption in Africa is a major barrier that prevents funds being passed from governments and other people to safe hands. However I believe that money is not everything and instead of finding this corruption as the main culprit and thereby succumbing to making any further donations as we no longer know where it ends up, it would be wiser to spend money on secure and genuine infrastructures first. Building installations in parts of Africa so we (employees with integrity) can receive these funds and distribute it to different regions in Africa would be much saffer. Abundant numbers of people persist on stating "let us act now and not in five years" and yet they do not comprehend why this money is being squandered in corruption movements. If so many of us point out that native Africans are accountable for "stealing" and "corrupting" these funds, why do we either employ or trust them in the first place? what we need now is integrity more than anything and acquiring such integrity requires people to build it! Why does the UN rely so heavily on African transportation to carry goods around Africa and end up incurring levies and sometimes only half of the goods are transported safely?

We need people with integrity and our own infrastructures in Africa to mobilise goods without corruption on our side.
 
A

Art

DM said:
We need people with integrity and our own infrastructures in Africa to mobilise goods without corruption on our side.
No corruption on our side? Like the oil for food program perhaps? :biggrin:
 
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