What Lies Beyond: Exploring Different Beliefs on Life After Death

[hypnagogue]

I don't think we can say that being happy is THE meaning of life. On the other hand, being happy certainly provides sufficient motivation to live life, and motivation to live life is presumably the respect in which 'meaning of life' questions have significance.

Imagine the happiest you've ever been. Did you need to justify it extrinsically, or did it have some kind of intrinsic self-justification? Happiness does not derive meaning or significance from other things; it is its own meaningfulness and significance. It gives us sufficient reason to live without having to appeal to anything outside of itself.

 

[olde drunk]

i've come to a conclusion that the more we think of the afterlife, the more it doesn't make sense... we all can make up a meaning of life but if u really think about it and analyze it in depth, it ultimately won't make sense. someone said that the meaning of life was to be happy... but why? the meaning of life is to leave behind a legacy... why? what's the point? the meaning of life is a test from a divine source... again, what's the point?

the only logical explanation is that each person has their personal meaning of life and their personal goal(s). this includes whether or not there is an afterlife.

i believe that it is folly to accept any other persons' or groups' meaning.

when you find your answer it will resound within you. you may need to meditate or pray to hear your inner self.


love and peace,
olde drunk

 

[Dissident Dan]

someone said that the meaning of life was to be happy... but why?

I did not state that the meaning of life is to be happy. In fact, I stated that I don't believe in any purpose or meaning to life. I said that happiness provides value to life. Happiness is intrinsically valuable. You know this when you feel happy.

 

[Lorentz]

Everyones goal in life is to be happy. Why?, becuase we were made that way.

 

[Lorentz]

Being happy feels good and if it didn't there wouldn't be a reason for us to stay alive.

 

[Biskitbarrel]

I'm not sure I believe in an afterlife either, but maybe ceasing to Exist is not as terrible as it sounds. Afterall, think about it: everyone is going to die eventually. Even the most hardend materialst athiest will succumb to death at some point. There is no getting out of it. Sure, death would be the end of joy and laughter and whatnot, but it is ALSO the end of pain and suffering. So why should we fear it? Not everyone can live a quality life.

 

[gurl4god77]

It's depressing to hear that people believe that life is all that there is. According to my religion, which I believe in very strongly, when you die you can go one of two places: Heaven or hell. ( I'm an evangelical christian by the way) You cannot get to heaven by works, and if you sin you go to hell. ETERNALLY! So how do you get to heaven? By accepting christ as your lord and savior. (I love forums!) By believing, no scratch that, KNOWING that christ died for your sins, you confess that he died on a cross for you (he was crucified!) and was raised from the dead (he has fulfilled I think 42 prophecies so far) and confess that you are a sinner (because EVERYONE has sinned) you will be saved. For god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

 

[Loren Booda]

After death is much like after half-life, only twice so.

 

[dschouten]

It's depressing to hear that people believe that life is all that there is. According to my religion, which I believe in very strongly, when you die you can go one of two places: Heaven or hell. ( I'm an evangelical christian by the way) You cannot get to heaven by works, and if you sin you go to hell. ETERNALLY! So how do you get to heaven? By accepting christ as your lord and savior. (I love forums!) By believing, no scratch that, KNOWING that christ died for your sins, you confess that he died on a cross for you (he was crucified!) and was raised from the dead (he has fulfilled I think 42 prophecies so far) and confess that you are a sinner (because EVERYONE has sinned) you will be saved. For god so loved the world that he sent his only begotten son that whosoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life.
John 3:16

Then, if I understand correctly (and I probably don't), the purpose of life is to live after life. The way I have always understood it, and the way I have been taught, is that the life hereafter was a reward, a goal, "a prize worth pursuing" but not the meaning itself. The meaning was the glorification of our Creator (God the Father) who was, who is and who is to come withoug beginning and without end.

 

[merak]

our body is really made up of sub atomic particles. I have a loose theory that some these particles could carry identity information or leave some type of imprint on such particle much like dna does.I call them smart particles.perhaps over eons of time we may find our selfs put back togeather again in some form. we would not remember this life though as time has no meaning in the sub atomic world. kinda like humpty dumpty with a vary bad memory.

 

[dschouten]

I have a loose theory that some these particles could carry identity information or leave some type of imprint on such particle much like dna does. I have a loose theory that some these particles could carry identity information or leave some type of imprint on such particle much like dna does.I call them smart particles.

You obviously know nothing about sub atomic particles. They are identical, in every nuance of the word.

we would not remember this life though as time has no meaning in the sub atomic world. kinda like humpty dumpty with a vary bad memory.

What? Time has no meaning in the sub-atomic world? What crap have you been reading?

 

[Nicomachus]

our body is really made up of sub atomic particles. I have a loose theory that some these particles could carry identity information or leave some type of imprint on such particle much like dna does.I call them smart particles.perhaps over eons of time we may find our selfs put back togeather again in some form. we would not remember this life though as time has no meaning in the sub atomic world. kinda like humpty dumpty with a vary bad memory.

Fallacy of composition. Also, do you have any proof or is this just a preface to a Sci-Fi novel?
*Nico

 

[merak]

You obviously know nothing about sub atomic particles. They are identical, in every nuance of the word.



What? Time has no meaning in the sub-atomic world? What crap have you been reading?

I'm sorry guess I'm misinformed. I did not know all particles are indentical in every nauance of the word. so I have a few questions. how is a particle the same as an anti particle. virtual particles exist for such a short time that they can never be observed,how can one know that, they are indentical to all other particles. how is a pentaquark indentical to a force carrier particle. why can't the standard model predict a particles mass. why can't the standard model explain dark matter.

I hold that the past present and future are the same, that time is an illusion. how do you know that time has an effect on "all" particles, other that nuclear decay.

 

[merak]

Fallacy of composition. Also, do you have any proof or is this just a preface to a Sci-Fi novel?
*Nico

no I do not have any proof of that... theory. perhaps I sould have said; it may be" possible "that some unknown particle "may" retain (some) information about the "form" of matter it once was in. a sci-fi novel? that's an idea. wonder if it would sell $$$$$$$$$$$

 

[Loren Booda]

Doesn't make cents.

 

[sciart]

so our consciousness and feeling are virtual or unreal. It from low Entropy.

 

[merak]

so our consciousness and feeling are virtual or unreal. It from low Entropy.

sciart welcome. The theory that the universe is a hologram?? However the topic (was) what happens after death..heaven\ hell\ life after\ nothing ect ect. what do you think happens.is there anything after death.

 

[bola]

I think that after death we cease to be conscious. Our brain and body decomposes, and by definition, the essence of us goes away.

however, someone asked, why live when we in the end will just dissapear?
Well the problem is for one, you didnt choose to be here, nature put you here and now you're stuck with what you have. Maybe nature intended for you to think about your own existence, maybe not. Regardless, no one made a plan for you.

This is why i find help in that after i die, the world will still be here, and everyone i loved will remember me.
Maybe if i make more of a difference my name can live on for many centuries, and i can help the arts, technology, science whatever move forward and create something new.

This however doesn't happen to most people.

But shortly put, there is no objective point, the only point is what you and others around you create. When the people who live on after you die, remember your happy and even sad moments, they will be grateful for experiencing them.
So together people must create a place for themselves and for others, and that's about as much of a point there could be.

 

[dschouten]

I'm sorry guess I'm misinformed. I did not know all particles are indentical in every nauance of the word. so I have a few questions. how is a particle the same as an anti particle. virtual particles exist for such a short time that they can never be observed,how can one know that, they are indentical to all other particles. how is a pentaquark indentical to a force carrier particle. why can't the standard model predict a particles mass. why can't the standard model explain dark matter.

I hold that the past present and future are the same, that time is an illusion. how do you know that time has an effect on "all" particles, other that nuclear decay.

Yes, there are different types of particles. In the standard model we have six quark flavors, the leptons, and the force carriers W,Z and gamma etc.

The fundamental concept is that there is no difference between one particle of a given type and any other particle of the same type. You cannot distinguish them. Therefore, one 'smart' particle cannot leave an 'imprint' that differs from any other 'smart' particle (which would, in effect, make the 'smart' particles quite 'dumb' and 'useless').

Before you start dreaming up great notions about metaphysics why don't you take the time to actually research the issues. Contrary to what the history books might indicate, researchers don't develop complex theories by simply throwing dice, reading tarrot cards and consuming large quantities of alcohol.

 

[olde drunk]

I think that after death we cease to be conscious. Our brain and body decomposes, and by definition, the essence of us goes away.

however, someone asked, why live when we in the end will just dissapear?
Well the problem is for one, you didnt choose to be here, nature put you here and now you're stuck with what you have. Maybe nature intended for you to think about your own existence, maybe not. Regardless, no one made a plan for you.

This is why i find help in that after i die, the world will still be here, and everyone i loved will remember me.
Maybe if i make more of a difference my name can live on for many centuries, and i can help the arts, technology, science whatever move forward and create something new.

This however doesn't happen to most people.

But shortly put, there is no objective point, the only point is what you and others around you create. When the people who live on after you die, remember your happy and even sad moments, they will be grateful for experiencing them.
So together people must create a place for themselves and for others, and that's about as much of a point there could be.

Bola:

I found that by taking the idea that i chose the circumstances of my birth and it's enviornment, many more things about my life made sense.

look at how you would not be the you, you are today without those experiences. yeah, social scientists will say that it is the affect of nurture. look a little deeper at the 'significant' moments and how you were made to choose tween several options.

if you can accept responsibility for your life you can believe in our eternal conscious existence. i find this to be a much more tolerable, sane view on the subject.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[sciart]

sciart welcome. The theory that the universe is a hologram?? However the topic (was) what happens after death..heaven\ hell\ life after\ nothing ect ect. what do you think happens.is there anything after death.

Lost My memory and thought. Only a body. then It convert (or disassemble) other anything(stone,animal'body computer or cake). :( :)

Of course, All matter be controlled by Physcis Theorys and Laws,Forever.

 

[merak]

Yes, there are different types of particles. In the standard model we have six quark flavors, the leptons, and the force carriers W,Z and gamma etc.

The fundamental concept is that there is no difference between one particle of a given type and any other particle of the same type. You cannot distinguish them. Therefore, one 'smart' particle cannot leave an 'imprint' that differs from any other 'smart' particle (which would, in effect, make the 'smart' particles quite 'dumb' and 'useless').

Before you start dreaming up great notions about metaphysics why don't you take the time to actually research the issues. Contrary to what the history books might indicate, researchers don't develop complex theories by simply throwing dice, reading tarrot cards and consuming large quantities of alcohol.

of course I can not prove smart particles exist,but how can we know what's fundamental until we understand what's going on inside a black hole. I'm not doing any research.I don't have an atom smasher. I dream that I may find myself as a conscious being again at some point in the eons of time. I try to see some (even remote) chance that I may be conscious again. as of now I see none.That doesn't mean that one can not "think", of way's this might be. I can accept the fact that we live we die and that may be it.
I think one of einstein theories came to him, In a "dream"

 

[Loren Booda]

A black hole has the maximum of lost information for a given mass. If you can find a way to physically explain how all of its various infalling quantum numbers come to manifest externally as only spin, mass and charge - then might later be resurrected in their original spacetime - you may be as recognized a physicist as Stephen Hawking.

 

[bola]

olde drunk I'm sorry but I'm not quite following you.. What do you mean eternal conscious existence, reincarnation for an infinite amount of time?

And what do you mean if you chose the circumstances around your birth and environment?

 

[RAD4921]

What me worry?

"I am not afraid of death I just don't want to be there when it happems"---Woody Allen

 

[merak]

A black hole has the maximum of lost information for a given mass. If you can find a way to physically explain how all of its various infalling quantum numbers come to manifest externally as only spin, mass and charge - then might later be resurrected in their original spacetime - you may be as recognized a physicist as Stephen Hawking.

I'd be more recognized!

 

[Erazman]

To people who ask "what's the meaning of life? Whats the point of all this?"

Imagine there is an afterlife. What wouldn't stop you from asking the same question once you're in it. I can just imagine all the "new ghosts" standing around the water cooler.. "You know, man... i still don't know"... "yeah, what's the point of all this?"

Theres only ONE way to fully understand the purpose of everything as one big picture. Someone would need to be able to see infinately throughout all the universes all at once. To answer the question "why", you'd need to peer through the very mechanism of the universes, like opening up a clock. The only difference is, this clock is an infantely big object. You can't open it. Nobody can, because it has no defining edge. It's forever. Therefore you cannot possibly understand it, no matter hard far you look, there's always more. "Infinate"... think about it..No matter what you discover, whether you think its a meaning, a truth... your mind simply cannot comprehend all the conflicting possibilities of that meaning. The conflicting possibilities is infinate in itself.

So to conclude, if this makes any sense, to ask the question "what is the meaning of life?" is like asking to see infinite. Seeing infinite is the only way you'll understand "everything". You can't. Even if your "god", there has to be more beyond his comprehension. Infinity is Infinity. Therefore, even if GOD appeared before me and told me the meaning of life, i'd call him a liar. He doesn't know. Infinite is something no human, spirit, or entity can possibly comprehend.

TO UNDERSTAND SOMETHING, THERE HAS TO BE AN EDGE, LIMIT, OR QUANTITY.
SINCE THE UNIVERSE IS INFINATE, THEN LIFE IS INFINATE.
THEREFORE, WE WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND IT.

^^ bull****. i didnt mean to type the universe is infinate. I really meant to say whatever is BEYOND the universe is infinate. and if it is, no one will ever be able to comprehend what's beyond the beyond the beyond the beyond etc...

 

[bola]

Erazman: How can you say the universe is infinite?
I do not believe there's an infinite amount of sub atomic particles in the world.
And if there is not, then the universe has an edge.

Whether we will be capable of reaching this edge in any forseeable future is another question though.
But I do believe if humans follow the path they are on now, they will eventually discover everything. It may take thousands of years, but we'll get there.

Id also like to add that this may not solve any meaning. It may solve why the universe is here, but not why we're here.
Conscious beings may never have a purpose, in an universe where nothing else seems to be.

 

[olde drunk]

Erazman: How can you say the universe is infinite?
I do not believe there's an infinite amount of sub atomic particles in the world.
And if there is not, then the universe has an edge.

Whether we will be capable of reaching this edge in any forseeable future is another question though.
But I do believe if humans follow the path they are on now, they will eventually discover everything. It may take thousands of years, but we'll get there.

Id also like to add that this may not solve any meaning. It may solve why the universe is here, but not why we're here.
Conscious beings may never have a purpose, in an universe where nothing else seems to be.

if there is an edge, what's beyond the edge? why aren't there an infinite number of particles?? if the physical universe is expanding, isn't it creating more particles?

let's understand that the universe is not just the physical world that we experience. above and beyond our bodies we are some form of energy (consciousness?).

BOLA: i am sorry, i didn't see your prior questions till today.

i tried to work backward from an eternal, infinite universe, to understand my role. if, it is eternal, then why aren't we? (not our bodies, but our spirit, consciousness, whatever).

once i accepted infinty, it was easy to understand that time doesn't exist, beyond the physical. without time, you can see the mutiplicity of the total universe.

as we act, cause and effect ripples through many layers of reality. i think, i act, my chemicals, hormones, etc get in gear for activity. people that i talk to agree or disagree to co-operate. people that see my actions, respond. then, unknown strangers come to the fore and assist. this led me to believe that we do communicate on a psychic level.

somehow, realizing that we are timeless, led to accepting reincarnation. even the famous jc said, unless you be born again. what did he really mean??

the rest is easy. without time, with freewill and reincarnation it becomes logical that i choose the manner of my birth. i agree with my parents on the spiritual level to be born and share a physical experience with them.

looking backward at your life from this perspective, illuminates so many reasons of why this or that happened.

i works for me, is all i can say. life is more than sci-fi or traditional religion.

love&peace,
olde drunk

 

[kcballer21]

Life after death is a concept that does great to get an intelligent civilization to the point where they can conclude that there is probably no such thing as life after death.
What I mean is that from an evolutionary standpoint one can easily see the advantages of believing in a life after death (religion), it is a great coping mechanism, especially when that animal is intelligent enough to realize it can take its own life in order to alleviate the pain of say, losing a loved one (or any other unhappiness). But if that loved one is in a better place then there is consolation. Any concept we have of an afterlife may be because of an urge that evolved to ensure survival, much like the urge to eat or procreate.
Then there is the scenario when one knows that death for them is near. That fear alone is enough to convert the strongest skeptic. I remember reading an article written by Ann Druyan, the widow of Carl Sagan. She said that while Sagan was lying on his death bed he remained certain that there is no afterlife, I believe the quote was, "he did not seek refuge in delusions."

 

[Erazman]

Erazman: How can you say the universe is infinite?
I do not believe there's an infinite amount of sub atomic particles in the world.
And if there is not, then the universe has an edge.

Whether we will be capable of reaching this edge in any forseeable future is another question though.
But I do believe if humans follow the path they are on now, they will eventually discover everything. It may take thousands of years, but we'll get there.

not once did i say the universe is infinite. i said the clock your trying to open is infinate. this metaphorical clock represents not just this universe, but "everything" else that is out there and beyond this universe. I quote the word everything because even "everything" represents a limited quantity.

I am not talking about an infinite universe. I am talking about infinite space. Space is something that exists infinately. I don't believe there's any kind of "wall". Even if there is, there has to be something beyond that wall. This may be seen as an intuitive speculation, but there's a lot of common sense to it.

Id also like to add that this may not solve any meaning. It may solve why the universe is here, but not why we're here.
Conscious beings may never have a purpose, in an universe where nothing else seems to be

Like i said, no entity, being, or even spirit would be able to comprehend something that is infinite. Therefore the question "why" cannot be answered. "Meaning" is an impossible answer to find. This is only if your trying to look at the "big picture" of things. (Again, i quote "big picture", because even a big picture has defining edges). We will never know what is infinately out there. Even if you give humans a trillion generations, it's impossible to store in any kind of database of everything that exists. ("everything" represents a quantity). So the question "why all of this?" becomes IMPOSSIBLE to know, no matter how advanced in technology we will become.

We can use the term "meaning" in a different context to make it work. I find "meaning" in the people who i love, but this is only in my own little world. If they die, or if i die, there's billions of people who are not affected, and continue to laugh, enjoy, love and hate. If your talking about "why are we here", you'd need to see infinate. You'd need to see the mechanism of infinate space. We only discovered the world was round until we traveled around it. Try traveling through infinate space at a "virtually" infinate speed and you'll get confused if you try to make something out of it, because there's always more. There will always be MORE conflicting possibilties to what you thought meaning was.

I'm not giving an answer, I am presenting the concept of an impossible answer. If anyone truly understands what I am saying, then they will understand another conclusion: The only "meaning" you should be concerned about is what goes on in your limited realm. According to the Hubble space telescope, the limits of my "realm" right now is 13 billion light years away. What's beyond that i'll never know. Maybe some day we'll go beyond that, and find a few more universes. But then what's beyond that? How strange does it get? What new MEANING to things will we find?

Like the old phrase goes: more answers only lead to more questions. This is so true. I believe it's infinately true.

 

[bola]

if there is an edge, what's beyond the edge? why aren't there an infinite number of particles?? if the physical universe is expanding, isn't it creating more particles?

let's understand that the universe is not just the physical world that we experience. above and beyond our bodies we are some form of energy (consciousness?).

BOLA: i am sorry, i didn't see your prior questions till today.

i tried to work backward from an eternal, infinite universe, to understand my role. if, it is eternal, then why aren't we? (not our bodies, but our spirit, consciousness, whatever).

once i accepted infinty, it was easy to understand that time doesn't exist, beyond the physical. without time, you can see the mutiplicity of the total universe.

as we act, cause and effect ripples through many layers of reality. i think, i act, my chemicals, hormones, etc get in gear for activity. people that i talk to agree or disagree to co-operate. people that see my actions, respond. then, unknown strangers come to the fore and assist. this led me to believe that we do communicate on a psychic level.

somehow, realizing that we are timeless, led to accepting reincarnation. even the famous jc said, unless you be born again. what did he really mean??

the rest is easy. without time, with freewill and reincarnation it becomes logical that i choose the manner of my birth. i agree with my parents on the spiritual level to be born and share a physical experience with them.

looking backward at your life from this perspective, illuminates so many reasons of why this or that happened.

i works for me, is all i can say. life is more than sci-fi or traditional religion.

love&peace,
olde drunk

I don't know.. I think that our consciousness is purely chemical and biological.
And that it is dependant on our bodies, like our hearts, our lungs, it needs all these things to function. Once the heart dies, oxygen no longer reaches the brain, and the consciousness dies. (the fact that we sleep is testimony of this).
And also I wouldn't want to be conscious for eternity, that seems worse than dying.

The only way i see us "living forever", is because the energy that makes up the matter of my body will never die, it will only change form, and that's the key word here, change form.

And also, I think the universe has a constant level of energy, if we set energy = 120003845743, then it will always be 120003845743.
Meaning the energy will only change form, it will not grow larger or create more particles.
I conclude with this because where would it get more energy from?
Seems to me energy can't be created, it can only come from something else.

And erazman, I see what you're saying.
But i wouldn't say that space is infinite, on the contrary it seems like space is not. But however, if we say that everything that exists, in any form, is 'something', and all that does not exist in any form or on any level is 'nothing', must there be an infinite amount of something?
Or can there be a something that has a wall, and on the other side there is nothing. When people picture nothing, they usually picture a pitch black space of some kind, this is the wrong image, nothing = nothing, not a black space. So if there is a wall, how can nothing be outside it?

:P

 

[dschouten]

of course I can not prove smart particles exist,but how can we know what's fundamental until we understand what's going on inside a black hole. I'm not doing any research.I don't have an atom smasher. I dream that I may find myself as a conscious being again at some point in the eons of time. I try to see some (even remote) chance that I may be conscious again. as of now I see none.That doesn't mean that one can not "think", of way's this might be. I can accept the fact that we live we die and that may be it.
I think one of einstein theories came to him, In a "dream"

On the contrary, we can prove that 'smart particles' do not exist within any current conceptual framework of physics. If you would like to continue along this vein, you must first disprove QM, since it is in direct contradiction with your 'smart particles'.

Noone is condemning that the mere thought of smart particles bubbled through your mind. However, before it made its way to your fingertips resting on the keyboard it should have been arrested by your faculties of reason. Any fool can dream. Useful dreams are based on knowledge and wisdom.

 

[dschouten]

After dying has passed...

Its quite obvious to me. When we die, we rot, whereupon the tooth fairy takes our teeth and fashions them into little kittens so that our energy stays in the universe forever in a more playful form (these kttens are the kind that don't grow into cats).

 

[merak]

Its quite obvious to me. When we die, we rot, whereupon the tooth fairy takes our teeth and fashions them into little kittens so that our energy stays in the universe forever in a more playful form (these kttens are the kind that don't grow into cats).

its also obvious that the kittens are both alive and dead at the same time and that tooth fairy is the one behind all paradoxs.