Solving Complex Velocity from Particle Falling in Gravity

In summary: So the correct is F = kv^2 (*).In summary, the person is trying to derive the equations of motion for a particle falling in a uniform gravitational field with air drag proportional to the square of velocity. However, they are getting the velocity as a complex number. They have found a sign issue in the equation and are trying to understand where they went wrong in their derivation. The conversation also touches on the use of Lagrangian vs Newtonian methods for this problem.
  • #1
fobos3
34
1
I'm trying to derive the equations of motion for a particle falling in a uniform gravitational fill with air drag proportional to the square of velocity. However I'm getting the velocity as a complex number. Here is what I've done

The force of friction is [tex]F=-k\left(\dfrac{dx}{dt}\right)^2\dfrac{\textbf{v}}{||\textbf{v}||}=-k\left(\dfrac{dx}{dt}\right)^2[/tex]

We put the particle stationary at [tex]x=0[/tex]

The Lagrangian is [tex]\mathcal{L}=\dfrac{1}{2}m\left(\dfrac{dx}{dt}\right)^2-mgx[/tex]

[tex]\dfrac{d}{dt}\left(\dfrac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \dot{x}}\right)-\dfrac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial x}=-k\left(\dfrac{dx}{dt}\right)^2[/tex]

[tex]m\dfrac{d^2 x}{dt^2}+mg=-k\left(\dfrac{dx}{dt}\right)^2[/tex]

If we put [tex]c=\dfrac{k}{m}[/tex]

[tex]\dfrac{d^2x}{dt^2}+c\left(\dfrac{dx}{dt}\right)^2+g=0[/tex]

We put [tex]p=\dfrac{dx}{dt}[/tex]

We have [tex]\dfrac{d^2x}{dt^2}=\dfrac{dp}{dt}=\dfrac{dp}{dx}\dfrac{dx}{dt}=\dfrac{dp}{dx}p[/tex]

The differential equation becomes

[tex]\dfrac{dp}{dx}p+cp^2+g=0[/tex]

[tex]\dfrac{p}{cp^2+g}\dfrac{dp}{dx}=-1[/tex]

[tex]\int\dfrac{p}{cp^2+g}\,dp=-x[/tex]

To solve the integral we put [tex]u=cp^2+g[/tex]

[tex]\dfrac{du}{dp}=2cp[/tex]

[tex]p=\dfrac{1}{2c}\dfrac{du}{dp}[/tex]

[tex]\dfrac{1}{2c}\int \dfrac{1}{u}\,du=-x[/tex]

[tex]\int \dfrac{1}{u}\,du=\ln |u|=\ln u[/tex] because [tex]u>0[/tex]

[tex]\dfrac{1}{2c}\ln (cp^2+g)+A=-x[/tex]

[tex]A(cp^2+g)=e^{-2cx}[/tex]

At [tex]t=0,x=0,p=0[/tex]

[tex]Ag=1[/tex]

[tex]A=\dfrac{1}{g}[/tex]

[tex]\dfrac{c}{g}p^2+1=e^{-2cx}[/tex]

[tex]p^2=\dfrac{g(e^{-2cx}-1)}{c}[/tex]

Now the sign of [tex]\dfrac{g(e^{-2cx}-1)}{c}[/tex] is determined by [tex]e^{-2cx}-1[/tex] which is not necessary positive definite.

In fact if we put [tex]c=1,x=1[/tex] we get [tex]e^{-2}-1<0[/tex] which means that [tex]p\in \mathbb{C}[/tex]

But [tex]p=\dfrac{dx}{dt}[/tex] which makes no sense at all. Did I do something wrong?
 
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  • #2
fobos3 said:
[tex]\dfrac{d}{dt}\left(\dfrac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial \dot{x}}\right)-\dfrac{\partial \mathcal{L}}{\partial x}=-k\left(\dfrac{dx}{dt}\right)^2[/tex]

The sign of the drag force in the above equation is wrong.
By the way, I don't see why we have to use Lagrangian here, since Newtonian method is much more simple.

EDIT: Actually you may change either the sign of the drag force or the sign of the potential energy, but only one of them. Both yield the same correct equation.
 
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  • #3
fobos3 said:
[tex]m\dfrac{d^2 x}{dt^2}+mg=-k\left(\dfrac{dx}{dt}\right)^2[/tex]

I think you have a sign issue here. Shouldn't it be:

[tex]m\dfrac{d^2 x}{dt^2}=mg-k\left(\dfrac{dx}{dt}\right)^2[/tex]

Mass*acceleration equals the sum of the forces. The net force is gravity minus drag.
 
  • #4
hikaru1221 said:
The sign of the drag force in the above equation is wrong.
By the way, I don't see why we have to use Lagrangian here, since Newtonian method is much more simple.

EDIT: Actually you may change either the sign of the drag force or the sign of the potential energy, but only one of them. Both yield the same correct equation.

Yes I see that now. Can you explain where I went wrong in my derivation of the friction.This is what I thought

[tex]F=-k\dot{x}^2 \hat{\textbf{v}}[/tex]

[tex]\hat{\textbf{v}}=\dfrac{\textbf{v}}{||\textbf{v}||}=\dfrac{(\dot{x})}{\dot{x}}=(1)[/tex]

Where the brackets denote a vector in the x direction.

Now obviously [tex]\hat{\textbf{v}}=(1)[/tex] is wrong, because the particle accelerates in the negative direction, but why?

Edit
Never mind. I find out on my own.
 
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  • #5
There is nothing wrong with [tex]\vec{F}=-kv^2\hat{v}[/tex]. But you must be careful when jotting down [tex]F = -kv^2[/tex] (*) (that means F<0). Since the ball is falling, the force must act upwards. So when you write (*), that means the positive direction of x-axis is downward.
Now in order that potential energy V = mgx, the x-axis must point upwards, which is inconsistent with (*) as explained above.
 

1. How do you calculate the velocity of a falling particle in gravity?

To calculate the velocity of a falling particle in gravity, you can use the formula v = gt, where v is the velocity, g is the acceleration due to gravity (9.8 m/s^2), and t is the time in seconds.

2. What factors can affect the velocity of a falling particle in gravity?

The velocity of a falling particle in gravity can be affected by factors such as air resistance, the mass of the particle, and the gravitational force of the object it is falling towards.

3. How does air resistance impact the velocity of a falling particle in gravity?

Air resistance can slow down the velocity of a falling particle in gravity by creating a force that acts in the opposite direction of the particle's motion. This force increases as the velocity and surface area of the particle increase.

4. How does the mass of the falling particle affect its velocity in gravity?

The mass of the falling particle does not directly affect its velocity in gravity. However, a heavier particle will experience a greater force of gravity, which can result in a higher velocity while falling.

5. Can the velocity of a falling particle in gravity ever exceed the speed of light?

No, the speed of light is the maximum speed that can be achieved in the universe. The velocity of a falling particle in gravity can never exceed this speed.

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