# Airlines ousource maintenance

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edward
Just when I thought the outsourcing of jobs to other countries had hit a peak, I find this little gem.

quote: JetBlue, Southwest, America West, Northwest and United are among the carriers who outsource major maintenance of their aircraft to contractors in other countries, according to a report in The Wall Street Journal.quote:

http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2005/airline_maintenance.html [Broken]

Do El Salvador mechanics have an FAA approved A&P (airframe and Power plant) certification from the FAA? I really doubt that. Has anyone heard about this?

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## Answers and Replies

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Given that I can fly to New York for about the same amount of money it costs me to drive down to LA, I'm not complaining.

misskitty
I find it irritating enough when I call up the airline to ask if they have a military discount for my fiance (because they never list them on the website) and don't speak to someone who is articulate with English. I understand they need jobs too but this is getting a bit annoying.

~Kitty

misskitty
Airfare is still expensive though. It took us 2 1/2 hours to find an airfare that would fit in our alotted budget. I don't see how outsourcing the maintanence jobs is going to help the consumers the way economists are saying it does if they don't lower the price of their tickets.

~Kitty

edward
misskitty said:
I find it irritating enough when I call up the airline to ask if they have a military discount for my fiance (because they never list them on the website) and don't speak to someone who is articulate with English. I understand they need jobs too but this is getting a bit annoying.

~Kitty

They have been outsourcing ticketing and booking for some time now, but engine maintenance being done in south America is the pits from my point of view.

edward
loseyourname said:
Given that I can fly to New York for about the same amount of money it costs me to drive down to LA, I'm not complaining.

You are not complaining because you only think you are not paying. The FAA has to send hundreds of inspectors to those countries and the taxpayers pick up the tab.

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
edward said:
You are not complaining because you only think you are not paying. The FAA has to send hundreds of inspectors to those countries and the taxpayers pick up the tab.

I haven't paid any taxes in three years.

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
misskitty said:
Airfare is still expensive though.

Not on Jet Blue and Southwest, it isn't.

misskitty
It was for southwest when we were looking. I haven't heard of Jet Blue so I don't know. The fare from Southwest was over $400 and that was in coach! ~Kitty Staff Emeritus Gold Member misskitty said: It was for southwest when we were looking. I haven't heard of Jet Blue so I don't know. The fare from Southwest was over$400 and that was in coach!

~Kitty

I suppose it depends on where you're going. I managed to fly home for $29 once on Southwest. Edit: That's Oakland to LAX, by the way. In contrast, it takes about$90 worth of gas to drive home.

misskitty
That was after I priced it out on their website. When he tried to price it out he put in the same info I did and got an even higher price. It seems like they can't be consistant.

~Kitty

misskitty
I find it does depend on when and where you are flying from, but over $400 for a coach seat on an early flight seems ludrious in my mind. What is the point of outsourcing jobs that we have here in the states anyway? There are plenty of aeronautical mechanics in the US who need jobs. ~Kitty TRCSF misskitty said: What is the point of outsourcing jobs that we have here in the states anyway? There are plenty of aeronautical mechanics in the US who need jobs. ~Kitty There's plenty of out of work telemarketers too. The reason for the outsourcing is that they can pay people to do it for cheaper overseas, lay off american workers, and give their executives nice fat bonuses. Staff Emeritus Gold Member Well, the most I ever paid to fly on either of those airlines was$129 to go from LAX to JFK on Jet Blue. As long as you book in advance, both always seem to have great fares, at least from my experience. Where were you going when you had this problem?

I've got to say, I swear by Southwest. I was flying from LAX to BWI a couple years back and had a really bad ear infection so that my hearing was impaired. They were incredibly helpful, allowing me to preboard and bumping me to first class.

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
TRCSF said:
There's plenty of out of work telemarketers too. The reason for the outsourcing is that they can pay people to do it for cheaper overseas, lay off american workers, and give their executives nice fat bonuses.

Telemarketers work on commission. What's the benefit in outsourcing a telemarketer?

TRCSF
loseyourname said:
Telemarketers work on commission. What's the benefit in outsourcing a telemarketer?

Because telemarketers from India work for a significantly smaller commissions.

Why do you think the telemarkter or tech support you hear all the time now is speaking with a thick Indian accent?

Gold Member
loseyourname said:
Given that I can fly to New York for about the same amount of money it costs me to drive down to LA, I'm not complaining.
I believe this to be short-term thinking. I won't shop at Wal-Mart to save a few cents because I believe in the long run they will destroy competition in America. In general I believe people who look out for themselves and never give back to their communities/country will pay a price one way or another.

misskitty
loseyourname said:
Well, the most I ever paid to fly on either of those airlines was $129 to go from LAX to JFK on Jet Blue. As long as you book in advance, both always seem to have great fares, at least from my experience. Where were you going when you had this problem? I've got to say, I swear by Southwest. I was flying from LAX to BWI a couple years back and had a really bad ear infection so that my hearing was impaired. They were incredibly helpful, allowing me to preboard and bumping me to first class. My fiance was flying from Boston to Nashville. We were looking to book the flight 3 weeks in adavance. ~Kitty edward TRCSF said: Because telemarketers from India work for a significantly smaller commissions. Why do you think the telemarkter or tech support you hear all the time now is speaking with a thick Indian accent? There are all kinds of jobs being outsourced including high tech. By TODD BISHOP SEATTLE POST-INTELLIGENCER REPORTER A Seattle-based labor union says newly surfaced documents show that Microsoft Corp. has looked to outsource to Indian companies high-level jobs in software architecture and development. The union, WashTech, says the previously confidential agreements between Microsoft and Indian outsourcing companies Infosys Technologies and Satyam Computer Services debunk the popular notion that only lower-level technology positions are vulnerable to outsourcing. http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/business/178021_msftindia09.html The loss of jobs is bad in itself. But when we outsource high tech, we dumb down America. Last edited: edward misskitty said: My fiance was flying from Boston to Nashville. We were looking to book the flight 3 weeks in adavance. ~Kitty So did he ever get there? SOS2008 said: I believe this to be short-term thinking. I won't shop at Wal-Mart to save a few cents because I believe in the long run they will destroy competition in America. In general I believe people who look out for themselves and never give back to their communities/country will pay a price one way or another. I try to be conscientious with every purchase I make. I buy my food from farmers markets, use green cleaners and toiletries, have a bio-diesel pickup, and get my clothes from second hand stores. So many corporations claim to be community and green oriented but with a little digging I find out it is just cosmetic for PR purposes. There are no easy solutions. The people with wealth and power will continue to accumulate more wealth and power. And that means outsourcing everything. As long as corporations have the same rights as people, corporations will have control, because they have the most money and the strongest lobbies. If the people want control of their government they must take it back from the corporatist elite, otherwise known as George W. Bush's "base"! I think Outsider said it best: Outsider said: YES, I believe that America is poised for world domination, but the American People (in general) will be used to acquire this success, but will not really share in the rewards (although this is what they will want you to think). The reward for the people is freedom, safety and security (things that monetary values cannot be placed, or better referred to as those things that money can't buy). But call me crazy, or call me a visionary, I believe the ultimate goal is social slavery and building the ultimate business machine. Since the majority of posters here are most likely not A&P airline mechanics, nor telemarketers, I doubt that they get the gravity of the situation. The trends in outsourcing indicate that we are in big Sh@t. A few years back when the blue collar jobs (nearly 20 millon) dissappeared, we were told we were going to have a service economy, retrain go back to school and learn technology. We older Americans did. Now those jobs are disappearing. And the jobs are leaving the country by the thousands per year just like the factory jobs did. India is doing every kind of service job immaginable. Every thing from: U.S. income tax preparation to software writing to processing medical insurance claims. A few years back a person who had a reasnonably good knowledge of HTML always had a job. Ah but no more, his job was sent to Bangalor. OK I done ranting now. The link below has some good info on outsourcing, but most will probably be too busy to see where their jobs will be in a few years. http://www.the7thfire.com/Politics%20and%20History/Norma_Sherry/out_sourcing_america-job%20loss%20and%20unemployment.htm [Broken] Last edited by a moderator: Mentor Sounds pretty bleak - unemployment must be awful today... outsider TRCSF said: There's plenty of out of work telemarketers too. The reason for the outsourcing is that they can pay people to do it for cheaper overseas, lay off american workers, and give their executives nice fat bonuses. eBay outsources to india... the responses are mostly canned... makes it easy enough Staff Emeritus Gold Member SOS2008 said: I believe this to be short-term thinking. I won't shop at Wal-Mart to save a few cents because I believe in the long run they will destroy competition in America. In general I believe people who look out for themselves and never give back to their communities/country will pay a price one way or another. When you're going to college and you don't even work, you take the lowest fare. Period. By the way, Southwest has done amazing things in reinvigorating the airline industry and being a model of what the industry should be, maintaining profitability when other airlines were being bailed out by federal subsidies. I have no shame flying with them. Staff Emeritus Gold Member misskitty said: My fiance was flying from Boston to Nashville. We were looking to book the flight 3 weeks in adavance. ~Kitty Jesus Christ, are you kidding me? When was this? I flew from Nashville to LAX in Spring 2000 on Southwest for about$150 or so (it was actually RDU to LAX, but there was a plane switch in Nashville).

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
TRCSF said:
Why do you think the telemarkter or tech support you hear all the time now is speaking with a thick Indian accent?

I've heard of the tech support outsourcing, but I wasn't really aware of telemarketers being outsourced. I haven't heard the voices of either, though. I don't even have a phone, so I guess that means I'm helping to put them out of work, here and in India.

edward
russ_watters said:
Sounds pretty bleak - unemployment must be awful today...

We have to work at the jobs we have not the jobs we wish we could have.

Of course people are working, but not at the jobs they once had or would prefer to have.

http://www.collegegrad.com/press/underemployed.shtml
Press Release

Underemployment Affects 18 Percent of Entry Level Job Seekers
"I’ve got a job, but I’m looking for something better..."
MILWAUKEE, WI--September 9, 2004--18 percent of recent college grad job seekers are underemployed, according to a recent survey of college graduates by the #1 entry level job site, CollegeGrad.com. "The last four years of slow economic growth has caused many students to take any job after graduation, even if it didn’t meet their expectations," said Brian Krueger, President of CollegeGrad.com. “The net result is that there are a large number of underemployed entry level job seekers still looking for their first entry level job in their field of study.”

The survey found that while many recent graduates are working, they are in a job that doesn't match their degree or their skill set – they are classically underemployed."

And the above is amomg college grads.

People in the 'Rust Belt" are currently working at what ever they can find, for a fraction of the pay that they made in manufacturing jobs 15 years ago.

Those who did update their skills are currently losing their jobs to outsourcing.
Current emploment rates mean little, underemployment isn't even measured in any meaningful way.

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Quote by Edward: "Under employment isn't even measured in any meaningful way".

That sentence is probably the most important one in this thread.

I have a friend who used to be the safety supervisor in a steel stamping plant. He is 55 years old and is now selling shoes in a mall in Orlando.

Under 30 and over 50 seems to be the new awkward age.

Few people really care. Over the last twenty years we have been dumbed down as a nation to the point of no return. People would rather watch a high speed chase on Fox news than try to figure out why they have had three jobs in the last five years.

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
I think you're misusing the term "underemployed." From what I know, it means that you are employed, but have been unable to find full-time employment. You can actually qualify for unemployment benefits by being underemployed in this way (assuming the law hasn't changed in the last four years).

edward
loseyourname said:
I think you're misusing the term "underemployed." From what I know, it means that you are employed, but have been unable to find full-time employment. You can actually qualify for unemployment benefits by being underemployed in this way (assuming the law hasn't changed in the last four years).

No, the definition I am referring to is the one that is currently happening in our economy. Who in hell wants to draw unemployment when they have an engineering degree?

The more current and applicable definition is:
"A situation in which a worker is employed, but not in the desired capacity, whether in terms of compensation, hours, or level of skill and experience. While not technically unemployed, the underemployed are often competing for available jobs."

Staff Emeritus
Gold Member
Never mind then. I thought the technical definition was narrower than that.

Edit: Oh, the thing about unemployment benefits wasn't meant to imply that people enjoy receiving them. It's just that unemployment is measured based on how many people apply. Since people that are underemployed (at least in the sense of not getting full-time hours) can apply for benefits, their numbers can be measured. You're right to say it would be damn near impossible to measure the number who desire or are qualified for a better job, though.

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edward
loseyourname said:
Never mind then. I thought the technical definition was narrower than that. You're right to say it would be damn near impossible to measure the number who desire or are qualified for a better job, though.

Actually it could be done fairly easily with an online questionnaire, but that would let the cat out of the bag on the American employment/underemployment situation.

The Department of labor, statistics gathering capability, is quite impressive. If a statistical analysis were to be done, it would show our economy in its true light and no one wants that to happen, especially Wallstreet.

Notice that in the extensive data contained in the link below, Underemployment is not even mentioned, yet underemployment is a much
more revealing statement of our true economy than employment.

http://www.bls.gov/

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Mentor
edward said:
Current emploment rates mean little, underemployment isn't even measured in any meaningful way.
You are making a postivie claim (underemployment is increasing) that you then say there is no data to support. So on wha do you base that claim?

The fact of the matter is that income levels are rising across all income groups (http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/income/histinc/inchhtoc.html [Broken] ). That, to me, is the most relevant piece of data on the employment situation The fact that people are unhappy with their level of employment is not an indication that the employment situation is a bad one. In fact, to me it points to an increase in the sense of entitlement, not a decrease in the strength of the job market. Put another way, the number of college graduates is increasing faster than the job market is expanding. But there's a catch - a large number of those college graduates have utterly usless degrees. I know many people who went to college and got useless degrees and are now unhappy with their level of employment. I am unsympathetic. Regardless though, their dissatisfication with their lives is not an indicator of a poor job market.
Notice that in the extensive data contained in the link below, Underemployment is not even mentioned, yet underemployment is a much
more revealing statement of our true economy than employment.
Why do you consider underemployment so important? To me, its just a perception that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with reality. Just because someone thinks they deserve a better job, doesn't mean they actually do deserve a better job. Ie:
We have to work at the jobs we have not the jobs we wish we could have.
I wish I had a Dodge Viper instead of a Mazda 6. Wishes are not a valid indicator of the strength of the economy.

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The Smoking Man
russ_watters said:
To me, its just a perception that doesn't necessarily have anything to do with reality. Just because someone thinks they deserve a better job, doesn't mean they actually do deserve a better job.
Granted ...

It is when the cost of the education outstrips the ability to pay back student loans that you figure out the GOVERNMENT and your institution thinks your education is worth more than it is.