Dismiss Notice
Join Physics Forums Today!
The friendliest, high quality science and math community on the planet! Everyone who loves science is here!

Alexander the Great versus ET

  1. Feb 14, 2007 #1

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Perhaps someone can help to determine the truth or fiction of a claim that [as reported], while crossing a river in 329 B.C., Alexander the Great encountered "silver shields" that swooped down and attacked his troops. It is further claimed that seven years later the shields appeared again and "fired a beam of light" that destroyed part of a wall at the city of Tyre.

    These two claims are often made, and in the latter case, the claim is that these events were recorded by observers on both sides of the battle. In the past I have often found that be they true or not, accounts such as these are a part of the historical record. Examples range from the biblical and heretical writings to ships logs, and from military reports to personal accounts like those in the diary of the explorer, Nicholas Roerich. [See the UFO Napster above] However, in this case I can find no reliable source for the claim. If it is true that this was reportedly observed, it would certainly be a striking footnote in history.

    The claim can be heard here starting at the 5:25 mark.
    http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-166600271442873025
     
    Last edited: Feb 14, 2007
  2. jcsd
  3. Feb 25, 2007 #2

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    One thing that caused confusion was the date: Alexander attacked Tyre three years earlier - 332 B.C. - not seven years later - 322 B.C.

    Several sources describe battering rams being used against the wall, but the descriptions do vary.

    http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander_t09.html

    http://www.livius.org/aj-al/alexander/alexander07.html

    Maybe there is a nice collection of first-hand accounts somewhere, and there may be many accounts of such a large battle, but I have reviewed a number of sources and can't find any references to the "shields" allegedly observed.

    There is another interesting twist on this story: The fall of Tyre was foretold by the prophet Ezekiel. Apparently there are many references to divine intervention regarding the destruction of Tyre.

    http://www.padfield.com/1994/tyre.html

    Ezekiel 26
    http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?book_id=33&chapter=26&version=31

    Ezekiel is famous in ufology and theology for the story of "Ezekiel's wheels" [Ezekiel 1], which is taken by many ET believers as an encounter with ETs.

    So in one sense this is a bit striking given the original claim, but it is possible that the story in the OP somehow evolved as a myth, due to the prophesies. That is, in order to fulfill the scriptures, a divine intervention story was created by someone along the line who wished to further a Christian agenda. That myth may have even continued to evolve until we have flying saucers with LASER beams. Or, as I can't rule this out yet, the information on The History Channel may have been completely bogus. Usually I find some basis for a claim like this. A reading of the original reference to this event should rule out many possibilities here, if I could only find one....
     
    Last edited: Feb 25, 2007
  4. Feb 25, 2007 #3

    Evo

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    I remember reading an eyewitness report from someone in the enemy camp that described what sounded like single occupant aircraft. I'll see if I can find it again. It's a famous incident.

    Another version I read was about another army coming to Alexander's defence carrying silver shields and swooping down on the enemy, but on land.
     
  5. Mar 3, 2007 #4

    Evo

    User Avatar

    Staff: Mentor

    This reminded me about the medeival report of UFO's fighting. It was in Nuremberg, Germany in 1561. Here's a reference to it and several other reports.

    History

    Main article: List of major UFO sightings

    Unusual aerial phenomena have been reported throughout history. Some of these strange apparitions may have been astronomical phenomena such as comets or bright meteors, or atmospheric optical phenomena such as parhelia and the rare, yet understood, lenticular clouds. Examples of these reports include:

    During the reign of Pharaoh Thutmose III around 1450 BC, there is a description of multiple “circles of fire” brighter than the Sun and about 5 metres in size that appeared over multiple days.[1] They finally disappeared after ascending higher in the sky.

    The Roman author Julius Obsequens writes that in 99 BC, “in Tarquinia towards sunset, a round object, like a globe, a round or circular shield, took its path in the sky from west to east.”

    On September 24, 1235, General Yoritsume and his army observed unidentified globes of light flying in erratic patterns in the night sky near Kyoto, Japan. The general’s advisers told him not to worry — it was merely the wind causing the stars to sway.[2][3]

    1566 woodcut by Hans Glaser of 1561 Nuremberg event. On April 14, 1561 the skies over Nuremberg, Germany were reportedly filled with a multitude of objects seemingly engaged in an aerial battle. Small spheres and discs were said to emerge from large cylinders.[4][5] (image right)

    These sightings were usually treated as supernatural portents, angels, and other religious omens. Some contemporary investigators believe them to be the ancient equivalent of modern UFO reports.

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unidentified_flying_object

    The Nuremberg event - Mass hysteria? Ergot poisoning? Aerial phenomena?
     
  6. Mar 4, 2007 #5

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    This corner of the UFO world is both fascinating and disturbing to me. It was no small challenge to get past my Catholicism enough to give the idea due consideration [esp wrt the biblical accounts].

    Note that the video linked in the first post is dedicated to this topic.

    The Mahabharata and Ramayana are also rich sources of this material.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mahabharata
     
    Last edited: Mar 4, 2007
  7. Mar 5, 2007 #6

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Re Alexander, I did find one popular media source that cites Alexander's historian as the original source for this claim, but they offered no reference. Either it was his “personal historian” who allegedly documented this, or I took it to mean as much. Others sources do cite at least one, maybe two different books as a sub-source, so I need to track those down yet. Many of the scholarly works that might be used require a subscription, and the information found online thus far doesn’t include much detail about this aspect of the battle. What is mentioned includes nothing about aerial phenomena of any sort.
     
  8. Mar 6, 2007 #7

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Okay, this is all coming together now. Callisthenes was his historian.

    http://www.ancientlibrary.com/wcd/Callisthenes

    http://www.the-dispatch.com/apps/pb...y=NEWS&template=wiki&text=Alexander_the_Great

    As it turns out, there are many legends about Alexander; due in part to the belief in his divinity.

    http://www.fsmitha.com/h1/ch11.htm

    It was also a mariner's myth that his sister was a mermaid, so this all gets pretty dicey.

    [emphasis added]
     
    Last edited: Mar 6, 2007
  9. Apr 5, 2007 #8
    The video you posted is no longer available.
     
  10. Apr 7, 2007 #9

    Ivan Seeking

    User Avatar
    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    Crud, some of these are offered on a promotional basis and I guess others are posted in violation of copyright laws. There are a number of videos along with this one linked in post #50 of the UFO Napster. Most still work.
     
  11. Sep 16, 2007 #10
    Thing is none of thier histories survived, we only have them being used as sources by People writer latter, typicaly 4 main SOurces are used for Alexander, Plutarch, Arrian, Diodorus, and some Roman Historian.

    Back to the Biblical Significance, Here's another Prpheyc about Tyre oftne overlooked.

    Amos 1:10 But I will send a fire on the wall of Tyrus
     
Know someone interested in this topic? Share this thread via Reddit, Google+, Twitter, or Facebook

Have something to add?



Similar Discussions: Alexander the Great versus ET
  1. ELFs or ETs? (Replies: 16)

  2. The religion of ET (Replies: 0)

  3. Science of ET's (Replies: 6)

Loading...