Am I being over-protective?

[Huckleberry]

The romantic relationship isn't the cause. It's the effect. She may not be looking for it, but he is. She may develop romantic feelings for him. Since you say she has low self-esteem I find this even more likely.

I don't see this as telling your girlfriend whom she can or cannot be friends with. It's just a bad idea to be friends with someone who is romantically interested in one, when one has decided to be committed to another. No matter how it ends, someone gets hurt. Right now it is her actions that decide the outcome. Maybe that is why you feel like you are backing down, because you have given up all control of your relationship to her.

There is more than one person to consider when making decisions in a relationship. Adding other romantic partners/rivals is an important relationship decision. This guy she wants to be friends with is clearly a rival. She needs to be aware of that when deciding whom to be friendly with.

You went about gaining control wrong; anger, jealousy, invasion of privacy. It sends the impression that you want to manipulate her actions directly, like a puppet on strings. It would also be wrong to be nicer than usual to her to try to win her affection. That is submissive. You gain control by controlling yourself. If you question her commitment then withdraw your affection until she can be trusted. If your affection has value to her then she will seek it. If not, then she will go elsewhere and you can go about finding a new girlfriend. There is give and take in a relationship, like a dance. All you can do is lead, and she has to choose to follow.

If you don't question her commitment then get a grip on yourself. That would be your own insecurity.

 

[DanP]

If you don't question her commitment then get a grip on yourself. That would be your own insecurity.

Even if he does question her commitment, first thing he should solve its own issues.

 

[DaveC426913]

She wasn't seeing him because she is seeking a romantic relationship with him

That's not what I'm saying.

He wants a romantic relationship. She does not, true, but she is inviting trouble.

Tht not really the point I'm trying to make though. The point is that you need to engage her conciliatorily, not adversarily. Communicate with your love, not with your anger.

 

[DanP]

That's not what I'm saying.

He wants a romantic relationship. She does not, true, but she is inviting trouble.

None of us know what she wants. Not even the OP IMO. The point is, she is free to do with her life as she see fit. She is free to make friends with whoever she wants, or bed whatever man she chooses, even if he is suicidal. Some girls like to save man in distress:PI won't even go as far to say that the OP should communicate with love. He should make known what he considers acceptable for him in a relationship and what not, gently but firmly. If his requirements are reasonable, (i.e, no idiotic stuff like let me check your phone, control your life and so on) and she choose to turn a blind eye on them, the OP should just bail out and seek another relationship. She is not that much into him anyway. This doesn't say anything about her, like the laughable remarks that she is a "attention whore", except that the OP failed to captivate her attention.

Some(most) relations, when they go down the drain, does not worth saving. The differences will just resurface after a time, humans have a very high inertia to psychological change. Its better just to move on. **** always comes back. Even phase III marital counseling, more often than not, it's just a therapist helping the two individuals cope with the idea that they will separate, and the separation anxiety. It seldom succeeds in solving the couple's problems.

 

[DaveC426913]

None of us know what she wants. Not even the OP IMO. The point is, she is free to do with her life as she see fit.

"I am pretty certain that she's completely faithful to me and we love each other dearly,..."

I think there's an assumption that they currently have a committed, exclusive relationship.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

"I am pretty certain that she's completely faithful to me and we love each other dearly,..."

I think there's an assumption that they currently have a committed, exclusive relationship.

That also sounds like something worth making a loving attempt to save, if one is mature enough to do so and accept that it may fail. That being said, this does sound like a relationship in its "walking ghost" phase, but that is still no reason to ignore an attempt to communicate. Even if it fails in this case, it may help you later in life to have learned to communicate in a mature and kind fashion, accepting what each other truly needs and wants.

 

[DanP]

"I am pretty certain that she's completely faithful to me and we love each other dearly,..."

I think there's an assumption that they currently have a committed, exclusive relationship.

Sure, I agree with you, but out in the wild the reality is that many couples will drag to death an half-assed relation, instead of just terminating it. The consequence is that they grow apart slowly, each seeking different options, and it's kinda unpractical to assume what the other one really wants in those conditions. The rules of the game has already changed, and one of the partners may not even be aware of it. (i.e how much she really loves him)

But my point is, it's also irrelevant. What is relevant is what you yourself want from the relationship, and whatever or not the current arrangement works for you. From a practical point of view, is very unimportant the reason she chooses to spend more time with another man: whatever she makes love to that guy every day or just talks about soul immortality and Disney cartoons has the same effect on the relationship ultimately; distance. Just the forms of expression are different. In either case, she is not so interested in the neglected man. And in most cases, there is also no one to blame. It just didnt worked out.

The OP should just think whatever it works for him or not. And certainly, his obsessive controlling behaviors don't help the situation. Living with a pathologically jealous person is no picnic.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

DanP, DaveC, you seem to agree more than you disagree, if you don't mind me saying so.

 

[Moonbear]

She wasn't seeing him because she is seeking a romantic relationship with him (from here on out, I'm going to be saying what I suspect, and of course I'm not speaking out of certainty), but she is seeing him because she wants a friend that has a common interest in her choice of music and clothing. Also, the "they're seeing each other a lot" was that they're seeing each other all the time at school. I see her outside of school.

I see no harm in that. But, does it mean you and she do NOT share a common taste in music and clothing? That by itself really is no big deal, and happens all the time. Though, even if the two of you have somewhat different tastes, do you not share those with each other?

Girls are clueless when it comes to noticing blatantly obvious signs that a guy likes them. The guys usually do a pretty good job at keeping it subtle though so I don't blame her. I just don't want to have a guy hitting on her when they're out alone together.

Really? Sadly, this is speaking more toward your views about women than it is about the reality of whether women notice when a guy likes them (in more than a "just a friend" kind of way).

Seriously, he's already gone there and said he likes her, and now with all this talking again, no matter how much she believes he doesn't like her in that way anymore I refuse to believe he can quickly get over her completely and keep it that way while still spending plenty of time at school with her and now trying to extend this to seeing her outside of school.

Isn't that mostly his problem? If she isn't interested in him, you have nothing to worry about, no matter what he feels about her. If she's oblivious to his desires, all the more indication she's content with the relationship she already has.

She's been clueless before about guys going after her. She had one of her closest friends from primary school tell her he likes her and she never saw that coming either.

It happens to everyone sometimes. It doesn't mean it's a pattern or a character flaw. Read the other threads around here and you'll see it happens to members of both sexes.

Anyway I already told her she can see him. Some of you might see this as the right move (other than breaking up), I see it as backing down, but whatever...

That's my worry, that you see it as "backing down" and feel like you are the one to give permission to see him, as if you control her. She is the one who decides who she does or doesn't see. It's not a sign of a good relationship if one partner is granting permission of what the other can do.

You really seem to have control issues. This just doesn't bode well for a healthy relationship.

 

[Mentallic]

That's not what I'm saying.

He wants a romantic relationship. She does not, true, but she is inviting trouble.

Tht not really the point I'm trying to make though. The point is that you need to engage her conciliatorily, not adversarily. Communicate with your love, not with your anger.

Thanks Dave, I'll try to change my attitude.

I see no harm in that. But, does it mean you and she do NOT share a common taste in music and clothing? That by itself really is no big deal, and happens all the time. Though, even if the two of you have somewhat different tastes, do you not share those with each other?

We didn't at first. She likes black, I like metro, she prefers guitar solos and screamo, I enjoy hip hop and R&B. But over the passed few months it hasn't stayed that way. We've still made an effort to try acknowledge each others tastes though.

Really? Sadly, this is speaking more toward your views about women than it is about the reality of whether women notice when a guy likes them (in more than a "just a friend" kind of way).

Yes this is my views towards women, no, girls actually. Too often have they been completely ignorant of what is going on around them with guys. They just don't understand that guys don't flirt with girls in public in a very obvious way if they're not attracted to them. It just doesn't happen...

You really seem to have control issues. This just doesn't bode well for a healthy relationship.

She's tried to change for me so "she can be prettier for me", and I would do the same.

But what I can't quite understand is how the majority of everyone's views here are saying that I should be letting her see him how she sees fit. Yes, as friends, but when it's obvious the guy doesn't want just that, I shouldn't be controlling and let her go out with him anyway?
I just can't wrap this around my head...

Having guys check out my girl is fine, flattering even, but not when they take it that much further where they're trying to spend alone time with her.

 

[DaveC426913]

Yes this is my views towards women, no, girls actually. Too often have they been completely ignorant of what is going on around them with guys. They just don't understand that guys don't flirt with girls in public in a very obvious way if they're not attracted to them. It just doesn't happen...

Yes, and guys are never clueless...

 

[Mentallic]

And yes I've already taken into account that I should be making my feelings known and that I'm uncomfortable with her being this close to him, without enforcing anything directly.

We have come across similar situations in the past and I did exactly that. She would obey my wishes because she agrees with me.

The only difference here is that she truly believes he doesn't like her any more. But let's look at the facts:
He liked her a few weeks earlier, and that only lasted for a week or so by his claims
He expressed his feelings towards her shortly after they started being close friends. It's as if he couldn't hold them in any longer.
Now they're starting to be close friends again, what if he chooses to "express his feelings" again on this outing?

I'll give you another scenario. You and your partner are at a party, and one of your friends comes up to you and tells you that some guy likes your girl. Well this stuff happens so you wouldn't really do anything about it, but then your girlfriend comes up to you and says that this guy has been hanging out with her half the night and they've become friends, and now he wants to take her into in a room to talk quietly.

Do you let her go?

 

[Mentallic]

Yes, and guys are never clueless...

Since guys are easy to see through but girls always see all their flirty advancements as friendly playing, yes guys aren't clueless with these situations while girls are.

I'm not saying guys aren't clueless, I've had a few instances where I find out months later that this girl likes me and I honestly had no idea, but right now I'm talking about girls being clueless when it comes to guys liking them, and guys being less oblivious to this stuff.

 

[Evo]

Hi Mentallic, I certainly understand how you feel and I agree with your concern that your girlfriend continues to be so close to a guy that has admitted he wants her. To me, she should, out of consideration for your feelings, either break off completely with this other guy or at the very least keep contact with him to a minimum.

It's not like this guy is a lifelong friend of hers. If she had already had this relationship with him when you two started dating, then it would be different, you would have had the opportunity to decide if you wanted a third wheel in your relationship. You didn't agree to this kind of thing. Am I correct?

 

[Mentallic]

Evo, I think you're the first person to be on my side in this thread. Thank you

Yes that's right, I wouldn't expect her and didn't want her to break up with her life-long friend that did say he likes her this year. But this new guy is different...

 

[DaveC426913]

Evo, I think you're the first person to be on my side in this thread.

I am on your side; I think you have a right to be concerned. I just think you need to go about it in a more consructive way than jealosy.

 

[Evo]

Evo, I think you're the first person to be on my side in this thread. Thank you

Yes that's right, I wouldn't expect her and didn't want her to break up with her life-long friend that did say he likes her this year. But this new guy is different...

That's what I see wrong, this guy is new to your relationship and he really shouldn't be in there.

I've seen this type of thing happen to friends, and it was always bad news.

Sorry for the hit and run posts, I'm watching tv.

 

[Mentallic]

I am on your side; I think you have a right to be concerned. I just think you need to go about it in a more consructive way than jealosy.

Oh, sorry, I misinterpreted your criticism for thinking that you aren't agreeing with me whatsoever.

I don't think jealousy is the right word here. I'm not jealous of him, just... afraid of what he might do.

 

[Char. Limit]

Hey, I'm on your side too. You have more support than you think.

 

[DanP]

Evo, I think you're the first person to be on my side in this thread. Thank you

Mentallic, it's not about taking sides. If you came here looking only for a reinforcement or approval of your actions, an internet forum it's a bad place to be. You confuse protection with enforcement, you seem over-controlling, expect her to "obey" and you invade her privacy. Most of the women I know would grow distant from you because of those traits, and seek comfort with other man. Fix yourself, before your next relationship. Else sooner or later youll end up in the same spot like today. Your behavior is enough to drive a person mad.

The only difference here is that she truly believes he doesn't like her any more.

You can't be that naive to believe her when she says that.

I'll give you another scenario. You and your partner are at a party, and one of your friends comes up to you and tells you that some guy likes your girl. Well this stuff happens so you wouldn't really do anything about it, but then your girlfriend comes up to you and says that this guy has been hanging out with her half the night and they've become friends, and now he wants to take her into in a room to talk quietly.
Do you let her go?

The point again is that you don't let her do anything. You don't own your girlfriend. She chooses to act a certain way. You don't like how she acted, forfeit the relationship. A women doing what you said in the scenario above isn't clueless, she just doesn't care about you. So move on.

Since guys are easy to see through but girls always see all their flirty advancements as friendly playing, yes guys aren't clueless with these situations while girls are.

Not really. We all are oblivious to another persons desire sometime. You think you are just friends and the "friend" is longing after you. It happens. But a women which repeatedly flirts is not seeking friendly playing. She is doing it with a reason. Girls are not clueless about this.

 

[zoobyshoe]

I'm not jealous of him, just... afraid of what he might do.

What is it you're afraid he might do?

 

[Evo]

What is it you're afraid he might do?

Give his girlfriend doubts about her relationship. He's already gained her confidence, he can constantly chip away at her relationship.

Have you never witnessed someone trying to break two people up?

 

[Mentallic]

Hey, I'm on your side too. You have more support than you think.

Thanks that feels reassuring

Mentallic, it's not about taking sides. If you came here looking only for a reinforcement or approval of your actions, an internet forum it's a bad place to be.

I wasn't looking for reinforcement of my actions, but it's nice to know that not everyone in the world thinks I'm a total psychopath for what I've done.

you seem over-controlling, expect her to "obey" and you invade her privacy. Most of the women I know would grow distant from you because of those traits, and seek comfort with other man.

I invaded her privacy this one time. I don't make it a daily ritual to check through her phone...
I'm 18 and recently decided since I was with my mate and we both have never been to a strip club to try it out. She didn't like this at all and was distant to make me feel bad for it, and only stopped once all her friends heard about it and started siding with me. How is this really any different to what I did? I've never really enforced anything on her, just this one thing really got to me. I think I need to be controlling sometimes at least.

You can't be that naive to believe her when she says that.

Then she's a very good liar. And I've known her for years, in and outside of this relationship. I'm pretty sure I can tell when she's being sincere about something.

The point again is that you don't let her do anything.

Since when? You're basing this claim on this one occurrence. Telling her that she can't be friends with him and can't go to the city with him after he asked her out is alll under the same restriction. I fail to see how I don't let her do anything.

What is it you're afraid he might do?

Well, this guy likes my girlfriend and he's about to spend a whole day alone with her. I'd like to think he's going to be talking to her all day about what they did the week before, but it's not likely...

 

[Mentallic]

Give his girlfriend doubts about her relationship. He's already gained her confidence, he can constantly chip away at her relationship.

Have you never witnessed someone trying to break two people up?

Thank you Evo!

 

[Monique]

I totally agree that it is unhealthy for your girlfriend to develop an intimate relationship with another guy. You definitely should let her know how you feel, just know that you cannot force her to do anything. If she respects you she will back down on the guy, if she doesn't it would be time for you to back down on the relationship with her.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

The reality of an intimate relationship vs. the reality of a friendship PERCEIVED to be intimate by someone who "lets" their girlfriend do or not do things...

I'm not impressed.

 

[DanP]

I totally agree that it is unhealthy for your girlfriend to develop an intimate relationship with another guy.

Why ? It's her alone which can decide what is healthy for her.

 

[Char. Limit]

Why ? It's her alone which can decide what is healthy for her.

So you think it's all right to develop an intimate relationship with one person while already sharing one with another?

 

[Monique]

Why ? It's her alone which can decide what is healthy for her.

What's healthy for her doesn't mean what's healthy for a relationship. Building an emotional attachment to someone other than your partner isn't healthy, unless you don't believe in monogamous relationships. It might start out innocent, but why would you want to risk letting it progress into something more serious? Mentallic definitely cannot forbid her having contact with him (imo), but I think he is right in setting limits. I do agree that by being overbearing you might actually drive her into the arms of another, so keep it sensible.

 

[DanP]

Well, this guy likes my girlfriend and he's about to spend a whole day alone with her. I'd like to think he's going to be talking to her all day about what they did the week before, but it's not likely...

This is where you fault lies. It's irrelevant whatever he captured her attention sleeping with her, or talking with her about Snow White. He did :P

I invaded her privacy this one time. I don't make it a daily ritual to check through her phone...

It is never justified. to invade one's privacy. Not once, nor ever. Yeah, yeah, most humans doit. Because they need some kind of explanation, proof, some kind of closure. But in fact the things are much more simple. If she doesn't deliver what you want, move on. Rest is irrelevant.

Since when? You're basing this claim on this one occurrence.

You clearly stated this is not the first occurrence.

We have come across similar situations in the past and I did exactly that. She would obey my wishes because she agrees with me.

She doesn't agree with you. She does it time and again, it seems. By your own testimony.
Think for a second, why would she do that is she gives a damn about you.

I'm pretty sure I can tell when she's being sincere about something.

You are pretty infatuated with her. Infatuation breeds blindness. You doubt her from the very core of your being, else we would not have this conversation here on a public board.
You don't know what to believe. This is why this thread exist.

 

[IcedEcliptic]

...Or she could just be friends and the OP is controlling. We have no way to know, except that this relationship should either be actively salvaged through honest means, or terminated. We don't diagnose a medical condition, but you think you can figure out two sides of a romance online? Cute.

 

[DanP]

So you think it's all right to develop an intimate relationship with one person while already sharing one with another?

Sure it is. Most of the time this is how things work in the wild. Its natural. I'm not debating 2 penny ethics here. This is how things happen. There is no sharp definition. Growing apart is most of the time blurred. The final blow for a relationship is usually sharp, but the way to it is blurred to hell.

 

[DanP]

What's healthy for her doesn't mean what's healthy for a relationship.

This is what I call nice theory. Most of humans act on what is healthy for them, and not what is healthy for abstract ideas. And relationship ethics become pretty much abstract when you want what's best for yourself. It;s just an experience after all. Beeing true to yourself is the healthiest thing you can do in your life. Might not be always ethical, but well, at hell with ethics. A couple should not stay together because of ethics. This is why I call unhealthy, to spend you life in a "ethical" cage.

 

[DanP]

...Or she could just be friends and the OP is controlling. We have no way to know, except that this relationship should either be actively salvaged through honest means, or terminated. We don't diagnose a medical condition, but you think you can figure out two sides of a romance online? Cute.

Yeah, but would you keep a women who is just friends with another man and end up spending a significant time with the friend ? It boils down to how much you want to compromise. If it works for you, OK. If you are frustrated to hell, why bother. Life is too short.

 

[Char. Limit]

I do believe that both sides in a relationship should at least try to respect each other's wishes, which would include bumbling into a relationship with another guy which your boyfriend is cautioning against. Mentallic may have overreacted, but it was his girlfriend who started this whole problem.