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Am I fraudulent ? HELP HELP

  1. Nov 27, 2005 #1
    Suppose I do the following : I have an account NUMBER, with a PIN, and an ACCESS CARD with random numbers on it.

    The system proposed by the bank makes the following clear : you know which code the next time will be asked to log in....so this means : the bank has clear confidence in the customer ??? Because why an ACCESS CARD with numbers...because we were frighten of middle attacks of passwords.

    So I can send 1 code only, to somebody with PIN and NUMBER. If the person tries it..makes a transaction...then I can know if it was neutral or not. The person could change the PIN, but then I could notice. So it has either to be neutral in only 1 log...which has to be quickly done. because you can do several transaction on an account with one ACCESS CODE.

    But then, from the bank : for your security, we changed your list by 5 positions...what does it mean for me who has done the fraud ???...nobody asked me the next 4 codes....there are 1/9^6 chances at each code to be found....because since the bank has control on the account, the bank can control the account without making the list change, because else I could see on my side...when I recieve by paper the account statement at home, the list does not change for access code....so now the person could ask through the bank to give me the money as the other wants???? I don't know which kind of lawsuit I'll get....

    So what have I done ? I proposed : if the person wants a certain amount of money, it can take before some date, in order to have a delay for decision, in a few years. But inbetween I used the money myself...so i locked the person and myself. But what did the bank do ? It verified if I still had the money ??..no...because I never told the bank, but the person....since I have not...I'm in fraud...not towards the bank, but towards the person, who, through the bank, accuses me of "fallacious possibility of money making"....if i do the same but i put the data on a website, or with a kind of path : like click here to have password....

    It's like if I say : I give you 100 tomorrow....but I use them.

    There are other systems like : the code changes all the time you load the page...so if the periodicity is clear, because you have the whole list, then the same error can be done....that kind of system is easily put in order by the insituiton, just make a non periodic function.

    But there are systems of transactional security which do not allow that kind of fraud...: they don't give you the list...but a random generator, that even with the same INPUT code from the bank, you cannot know what is the output, because it's different at each time. The user can check....and cannot give the code to somebody, because the next time it will be else, even for him.

    So may I say : well I could do the previous fraud, because your system is evidently possible to put in that kind of problems ??
  2. jcsd
  3. Nov 27, 2005 #2


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    Staff: Mentor

    Klienwolf, no one can figure out what you are talking about.

    Did you take money that wasn't yours, or did someone else steal money from your account?

    Can you make a simple statement like: "I took money from the bank by using a fraudulant code". Or "someone took money out of my bank account with a fraudulent code".
  4. Nov 28, 2005 #3
    Fraud is for me, like not something to become involved into as if number of times isn't becoming open. ie 7.
  5. Nov 28, 2005 #4
    Yes, this exactly what I mean...i give you a code...only 1...so you are in fraud, i use 2...then you use 3, i 4, you 5...so who is in fraud..? myself, because I have to erase at each time the fraud I provoked....
  6. Nov 28, 2005 #5


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    Staff Emeritus
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member

    What is exactly what you mean? None of what you've said makes any sense yet.
  7. Nov 28, 2005 #6
    sense no, cents no too. dollars yes two too. but if I 7,8, i 9 battleship who sank?
  8. Nov 28, 2005 #7
    wow, did I really get a response to my first post? I must be a genius because I understood what he said without knowing I did.
  9. Nov 28, 2005 #8
    kwolfe here is the answer if you think you might be doing fraud, you are doing fraud.
  10. Nov 28, 2005 #9
    Lemme see if I get this. You have some kind of internet account with a PIN and a randomly-generated code number. Every time you use this number, it is changed and you are notified of what new code number is (how?). You have given someone your PIN and code number so they could make a transaction, but before they used it you used it and so the code number you gave them is now invalid and they are accusing you of fraud.

    Is that right?

    Could you tell us a little more about the account? What kind of account is it? With what company? I've never heard of anything like this before.

    Or is this something of your own creation... a would-be security system patent?

    Kleinwolf, wir verstehen Sie nicht. Keine Beleidigung hat bedeutet. Bitte Versuch, weniger Wörter zu benutzen. Können Sie Ihre Fragen vereinfachen? Ich hoffe, dass dies logisch ist. Ich spreche Deutsch nicht.

    And I hope you speak German, not French. :rolleyes:
  11. Nov 28, 2005 #10


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    Gold Member

    Since it seems it's not going to get any clearer than that, I think this is a good time to close the thread.

    If you think you've committed fraud, consult a lawyer, not scientists.
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