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News America takes a step closer to China

  1. Oct 29, 2005 #1
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  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 29, 2005 #2
    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20051028/ap_en_mo/wal_mart_movie [Broken]
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  4. Oct 29, 2005 #3


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    That is humorous (in a sad way). I don't bother with documentaries from either the right or the left. There have been plenty of legitimate news reports about Wal-Mart’s operational methods, which not only are damaging to American workers, but IMO in violation of anti-trust laws.

    As for the "China connection" since there is already such a large problem with theft of intellectual property, out sourcing of intellectual property and jobs, and since China holds most of U.S. debt, we might want to become an unincorporated territory of China.
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  5. Oct 30, 2005 #4
    Eventually, I believe the whole world will more or less "meet half way". The spread of Capitalism is a magical thing for global equality, making everyone have to compete equally as hard for the same job or product, and eventually driving wages in poor countries up and rich countries down until they're about equal.

    I'd be willing to bet that in 50-100 years, China will actually be better off than America in the whole process of Global wealth being re-distributed, since China is currently on the way up and has many competitive advantages, wheras American wages are simply too high to be competitive globally, and will inevitably be dropping, putting America at a relative disadvantage.
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  6. Oct 30, 2005 #5


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    Actually, Japan is the one who would take away our cars.

    http://budget.senate.gov/democratic/charts/2004/debt/NationalDebtbyForeignCountriestop10.pdf [Broken]

    haha and no, i didn't mean that as a car joke.... but boy oh boy do their cars suck anyhow.

    Another figure from '04 showed Japan having $200B more and China around $40B more. I say we stop forgiving debts owed to us. I say we refinance with Ditech.com

    And continental drift better accelerate if China and the US are going to be getting any closer....
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  7. Oct 30, 2005 #6
    :zzz: *stretches and yawns* and a very good autumn day to you too Pengwuino:biggrin: .

    Regression to the mean ehh? in 50 to 100 years? I should think it just might take a bit shorter than that considering what I have seen on CCTV recently. They are showing 6-10 year old (my guess) kids animation (10-15 min per episode) that explored:
    1. fingernail as an indicator of health and disease such as fungus infection, low blood oxygen and red blood cell;
    2. hairy baby, touching on atavism, genes and evolution;
    3. formation of mirage, touching on different degrees of refraction in hot air;
    4. long-sightedness and short-sightedness and the function and structure of an eyeball;
    5. development of weapon from 2000BC till invention of gun power, highlighting the Bronze and Iron Ages.
    I can just imagine a lot of bright little boys forever hooked to science after seeing something like that, the way I was:biggrin: .
    Now tell me Pengwuino, doesn't it just warm the hearts of those of you who are still wrestling with Intelligent Design?:devil:
  8. Oct 30, 2005 #7


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    what? I think this daylight savings time is having some serious reprecussions with my brain....
  9. Oct 30, 2005 #8


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    Japanese cars suck ? This coming from an American ? :rofl:

    Sorry, most of the sane world views most US cars as being big hunks of unsophisticated engineeering with piss poor fuel econonomy and heart attack handling.

    You should aspire to building cars half as good as the Japanese do.:rolleyes:
  10. Oct 30, 2005 #9


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    Yah those Honda cars sure don't look like they are running off of lawnmower engines. And of course, anything out of Europe that doesn't cost over 2 years salary is utter crap and bridges the gap between automobile and steam engine.

    And you're building a multi-ton piece of metal to drive 1 or 2 people around a few miles. Economy is not the trademark of automobiles and is only a cop out in the race for superiority. But then again who wants speed in Europe when they pay a weeks salary to fill up :D
  11. Oct 30, 2005 #10


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    And those Fords and Dodges sure don't look and drive like they were built in the eighteenth century.

    For a comparative look at engineering expertise, just look at specific horsepower ratings. Japanese cars are routinely able to get over 100 reliable bhp/liter, whereas most American cars struggle to make 60 to 70 hp/liter. :yuck:

    We weren't even discussing Euro cars (way to go off on a tangent when you're on the losing side), but for the record, I'd much rather have most Euro engineered cars sitting in my driveway than most American ones.

    This sort of idiotic thinking is exactly what holds the American auto industry well back. Noone is going to give up the convenience of the private auto without a fight, so one might as well make it as efficient as possible, no ? Doesn't the energy crisis mean anything to you ? How about pollution ? American cars are big on pollution, too.

    Are you kidding ? If Europeans didn't want to go fast, then why the Autobahn, hmm ?

    And don't worry, with the way things are going, Americans will soon be caught up with the prices the rest of the world has been "enjoying" for fuel for all these years.

    I'm not irrationally prejudiced against all American cars, BTW. There are some that I really like : certain Chevrolets and of course the Ford GT. But that's about it. Nearly every other American car leaves a *lot* to be desired.
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2005
  12. Oct 30, 2005 #11
    The price difference is mainly a tax issue. Prices ex-refinery are not much different in the US and the EU. But European governments have with their tax policies effectively reduced petroleum consumption so that now , per capita, it stands at about half of that of the US. I don't think that Bush is planning higher taxes on fuel. Send the army under false pretext to a country rich in oil , OK , but don't dare to touch our cheap fuel. even Bush knows that this would mean big trouble for him.
  13. Oct 30, 2005 #12
    Of course if I was to say something as false and strawman like as this I would have been warned but hey...
    So the GDP is America ~ $40,000... So 40,000*2 = $80,000

    So according to you, any European car less than $80,000 is between a steamengine and modern automobile Funny... Like the BMW 5 series? Or the Porsche boxter s, or how about the Range Rover, or perhaps even a Merc slk...

    American cars suck, especially anything out of GM! They are badly designed, have very unefficent slow engines (mostly)... I mean I can only think of 1 American "Super car" The above mentioned Ford GT...

    Japanise cars are actually very good! And extermely good compared to GM cars..
  14. Oct 30, 2005 #13


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    That is even more tragic in a way - that the current administration is willing to sacrifice anything just for political and economic expediency.
  15. Oct 30, 2005 #14


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    Couldn't have said it better myself.
  16. Oct 30, 2005 #15
    Honestly, why would anyone care about horsepower per liter?

    Plus, they also tend to be extremely lacking in torque. I would rather have a car with a 4 liter engine with 250hp than a 1.5 liter with 150hp.

    EDIT: Before I get killed, my mom has an accord and my dad a celica. I don't hate jap cars, I just hate that argument.
  17. Oct 30, 2005 #16


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    That is a wrong generalisation. Certain Japanese cars lack torque low down - like the N/A rotary RX-8 and N/A Hondas powered by VTEC engines. Others certainly do not - turbocharged sports cars like the WRX (which I drive), the Evo and the Skyline GTR have gobs of torque once you overcome the slight turbo lag (anything over 3000 revs). In fact, modern Japanese sports cars like the Evo IX don't even have any discernible lag at all (personal experience of close friends who own the car), it's almost like driving a supercharged or powerful N/A car. And boy do these cars handle.

    At any rate, getting a torquey pull out of any engine is no problem for a halfway competent driver. It's only bad drivers that lug a car around out of a powerband, a problem you'll face even with an American muscle car. And highly powered RWD American cars tend to have wheelspin issues because of unsophisticated or nonexistent traction control aids. A lot of your usable power and torque goes out the window with a bad launch. Powerful Japanese cars tend to have more sophisticated drivetrains. And with rally bred cars like the Evo and the WRX, the AWD helps put the power squarely onto the ground. Euro cars have very sophisticated traction control and stability control. An M3/M5 even has a special launch control mode on the stock ECU that enables you to launch that beautiful beast with minimal wheelspin. American cars can only aspire wistfully to that level of sophistication.

    Again, specific torque relative to displacement is higher for Japanese cars compared to American cars. If you really don't care about how huge your engine is to get a specific power/torque figure, then knock yourself out with the grossly inefficient muscle cars. But most of us do care - in Singapore, we're directly taxed by engine displacement, and the petrol taxes are big too. Big displacement engines tend to be fuel guzzlers and polluters (a generalisation, but mostly true and pretty fair, I think).
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2005
  18. Oct 30, 2005 #17


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    How bout you use actual European salaries since that may make more sense? Of course it makes no sense using the American figures since Americans make more then Europeans (thanks for the credit too... its hard for people to admit Americans have such high salaries). Use some european salaries and it does get to be less outrageous ($80k vs. $55k is really a jump out of a range).

    And to whowever was talking about the Autobauhn (sp?)... might wanna take out a history book and find out what that was built for and the requirements for driving in Germany are.
  19. Oct 30, 2005 #18
    Not to put too fine and edge on it Pengwuino but you might want to check the selling price of a German car in Europe and then question why they have to stop the American public from purchasing these cars by applying a tarrif to the import price.

    The Japanese have been forced over the years to get around these tarrifs by moving production to America itself so the US auto industry didn't die completely.

    There's no point putting your fingers in your ear and singing 'la-la-la-la' and avoiding the truth of the situation.
  20. Oct 30, 2005 #19


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    Well since I don't know any foreign languages... i figure finding that information will be a bit impossible for me. Care to be my translator?

    And if you're done insulting, we can move back to the problem of Japanese cars being made of soda cans (that is a joke although i'm sure some people will still feel offended as if their views on life are being shut out).
  21. Oct 30, 2005 #20


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    I know full well the history of its origin, thank you very much. What does that have to do with anything ? The fact that the Germans still have it, maintain it and use it so successfully shows there's a current desire to have an unrestricted highway. And it's one of the safest places to drive in the world to boot.

    If you want to talk about "origins" tarnishing stuff for evermore, just take a look at Rummie shaking hands warmly with Saddam (America supported and armed that fiend once upon a time). Or America's initial involvement with Afghanistan, resulting in the establishment of a murderous theocracy there. Or America's miserable machinations in Iran - the list goes on and on. Your country created the monsters it's currently having so many problems dealing with. So please don't lecture me about bad origins.
  22. Oct 30, 2005 #21
    I'll do better than that. Here's a search on http://search.yahoo.com/search?p=US...&prssweb=Search&ei=UTF-8&fr=slv5-&fl=0&x=wrt" ...

    If you'll notice, the first incident from Lotus actually puts the import tax at 300%

    So ... What did you think all those foreign car plants springing up in the USA was all about anyway?

    The plain fact is that it is cheaper to build a plant in the USA and to manufacture there than it is to pay your taxes ... Unfortunately for you, NAFTA also applies and they are actually manufacturing things like the new VWs in Mexico as well as the replacement parts for Beamers (Thank heavens I didn't misspell that as Beaners!)
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  23. Oct 30, 2005 #22


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    Most modern Japanese cars do fine on standardised crash testing. Most of them have at least 4 stars on the Euro NCAP, with the Subaru Forrester having a perfect 5 star rating. So the soda can thing is just a pernicious myth.

    But I have heard plenty of complaints from American domestic owners about the crappy build quality of their rides. Their words, not mine. Feel free to feel offended about that.
  24. Oct 30, 2005 #23
    Oh, and since I am the OP on this thread and it started out as America takes a step closer to China, you're just a tad off the mark with that comment.
  25. Oct 31, 2005 #24
    Little boys marvel at stars,
    Big boys love their cars,
    Pengwuino picks a fight,
    and gets himself a small scar.
    (:biggrin: sorry can't resist it)


    Okay seriously. I am glad to say diplomatically China cannot be more different from the USA.

    Not that the USA has the same problem but the PRC has achieved the very important step of settling century-long boundary dispute with India, Russia and Vietnam (as far as I know).

    She uses the China-Asean Business Cooperation Forum (under which the world's biggest free-trade zone will be established by 2010) and the Shanghai Cooperation Organisation to minimize the resentment of the neighbouring countries and any misgiving they might about her rapid rise and attraction of capital.

    Her relation with S Korea has never been more promising because of complementary resources each has and cultural congeniality. Hu once told his counterpart that he very much enjoyed the Korean TV production which is extremely popular both in Hong Kong and the PRC.

    In relation to Taiwan, all 3 opposition parties have in the past 3 months visited the PRC vowing kinship and affiliation and that independence is out of the question. In a bid to win the hearts and minds of the southern farmers which have been the stout supporters of Chen, Hu has slashed the tariff for fruits imported from Taiwan and will shortly allow PRC tourists to visit the island ($$$$$). Two lovely pandaes will be on the way as a gift of good will to the people :!!) .

    In relation to N Korea, the very "special" relationship continues to strive. One big bear hug and three cheek kisses between the leaders both upon arrival and departure of Hu in Pyongyang. He was visably impressed by all the massive song and dance numbers and I have never seen him being more concerned and effusive in front of the camera.

    The lastest political deployment in Hong Kong is nothing short of brilliant and imaginative, showing the PRC can be magnanimous and open once it is sure of itself, and I for one am very impressed.

    On the whole the leadership is ground in good sense and prudence. Although the road to being a developed country is very very long, her direction is correct, her steps are steady and her resolve is firm. All she need now is time and that is why she is very likely to bend over backwards for stability and harmony on every level, good news indeed for all of us both in the USA and elsewhere.
  26. Oct 31, 2005 #25


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    What is the Chinese model of employment? That link only addresses Wal-Mart's cost-cutting strategies given the rising cost of healthcare. Who can blame them really? I have issues with their lousy products and over-crowded stores and assorted other tactics they use to drive out competition, but I was actually shocked reading that to see their employees even get 401(k) plans, and there's healthcare coverage for spouses! For working in a retail store? Their spouses should go out and get their own jobs for benefits.

    But, the interesting thing I noticed in reading the memo (yes, read the whole thing - do you think I'm going to trust a reporter's interpretation?) is that they have documented that even though they pay workers more the longer they are employed by Wal-Mart, their workers are not any more productive with experience. So, it baffles me why this isn't the first place they address for cost-cutting measures. Why not pay everyone a flat-rate no matter how long you're there and then offer incentives for increased productivity? That way, instead of paying someone more just because they hang around doing nothing all day and won't quit because they get away with it, you pay someone more who is more productive and contributing more to profits. That's how capitalism is supposed to work; if you are more productive and better at what you do than someone else, you are more successful in bringing home a better paycheck. Whatever happened to the idea of merit-based raises? It improves the productivity of your entire workforce, because even someone who would be a very productive worker isn't going to put in as much of an effort if they see that the unproductive employee at the register next to theirs is getting paid just as much as they are. And, if you have more productive employees, you don't need to hire quite as many, which means you are paying less benefits costs, which means you can afford to make the benefits a bit better per employee, which attracts more productive employees, etc.
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