American Dream Over?

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  • #51
Art
Just so we're clear here, by calling capitalism a "failed philosophy", does that mean you are a socialist, not a capitalist?
To point out the free market experiment of unregulated capitalism has lead to an unmitigated disaster does not make one a communist.
 
  • #52
Art
Who said anything about AIG? The $700 billion bailout is of fannie mae and freddie mac.
:confused: No it is not!! Fannie and Freddie have already been helped out with their own $200 billion bail out back in early September; and Russ this statement by you suggests you lack even a basic knowledge of what is happening. The $700 billion is for all of the financial houses holding so called toxic assets even including US subsidiaries of foreign banks.
 
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  • #53
Art
That's interesting: When Clinton left office, we were in a recession. So then the only reason Clinton's recession isn't still with us is deficit spending from Republicans?
Actually there is another way. You know the French whose modest economic growth you love to deride as an example of the failure of socialism? Well.......


French hold out against credit crunch

Unlike Britain, the US and many other countries, France appears to be weathering the credit crunch storm in reasonable shape.
snip
Take the level of household debt. In France, it is at 47% of GDP, while in the UK it is well over twice that.

Its not that temptation does not exist in France - the lure of consumerism is just as strong as it is elsewhere.

But it is very difficult to spend money you do not have in France.

French credit cards are little more than debit cards, so there is no question of simply sticking a couple of flat screen TVs on your credit card and hoping to pay for them later - if there are insufficient funds in your account, your bank will immediately block the transaction.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7635327.stm

So although they didn't benefit from the consumer led boom times and so had only modest growth, it seems now over the long term their policies aiming for steady growth over boom and bust have been proven to be the right ones.
 
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  • #54
Astronuc
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That's interesting: When Clinton left office, we were in a recession. So then the only reason Clinton's recession isn't still with us is deficit spending from Republicans?
I should have qualified my statement - growth as measured by GDP.

The economy was certainly in recession when Clinton left office as a result of the internet bubble (a result of the 'irrational exhuberance' mentioned publicly by Greenspan - others had already mentioned it privately), and that should have been a warning right there. The Dot.coms and Telecomms were oversold, and stocks appreciated to ridiculous values, e.g. WorldCom, JDS Uniphase, Nortel, Enron, . . . . .

I strongly recommend to a friend in the beginning of 4Q 98 to get out of tech stocks and go into something more reasonable, which at the time was NS, CSX, UP, Mobil (Exxon and Mobil merged in 1999), or others. He didn't listen, he laughed at my recommendation, stayed in tech stocks - and lost 70% of the value of his retirement portfolio. If he had instead bought NS and CSX, he would have doubled his money.

The growth in the US economy has been bought on credit, and now it's time to pay and the income is not there. In addition, the value of what was bought on credit has decreased.

Capitalism is not inherently the problem. Lack of integrity, lack of discipline, and materialism are the problems.

Besides, I said government, not specifically Republicans, although they did control the executive branch and both houses of Congress from 2001 to 2006.
 
  • #55
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Just so we're clear here, by calling capitalism a "failed philosophy", does that mean you are a socialist, not a capitalist?

Socialist or Capitalist. Do these terms even make sense anymore? Both systems are nothing more than systems of ideological simulacrum than are now seen in all their naked glory to be based upon want we always knew and thought they were based upon, namely, nothing much.

Both systems, but particularly the Capitalist system is based not upon traditional economic needs but rather upon promoting an endless sense of growth and false desires like the childish desire to be young, rich and famous. How childish can you get, yet think about the damage this almost banal system of happiness for all is having upon the environment of the planet?

The problem with Socialism was that it was too grown up for humanity as a result it was deemed to be un-American. I rest my case, and say, let this rotten system fall for all our sakes, economic systems can be amended, but ecological system and species cannot be replaced by a $700 Billion bail out.
 
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  • #56
Gokul43201
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That's interesting: When Clinton left office, we were in a recession.
We had negative GDP growth in Q3 and Q4 of 2000? I hadn't heard.
 
  • #57
Astronuc
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