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Another internet lie

  1. Oct 7, 2003 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    This was emailed to me:

    I made some quick checks:

    From the Qur'an; through a link at USC

    Translations of the Qur'an, Chapter 9:
    AL-TAWBA (REPENTANCE, DISPENSATION)
    Total Verses: 129
    Revealed At: MADINA
    Maududi's introduction


    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    ...
    009.010
    YUSUFALI: In a Believer they respect not the ties either of kinship or of covenant! It is they who have transgressed all bounds.
    PICKTHAL: And they observe toward a believer neither pact nor honour. These are they who are transgressors.
    SHAKIR: They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.

    009.011
    YUSUFALI: But (even so), if they repent, establish regular prayers, and practise regular charity,- they are your brethren in Faith: (thus) do We explain the Signs in detail, for those who understand.
    PICKTHAL: But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then are they your brethren in religion. We detail Our revelations for a people who have knowledge.
    SHAKIR: But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.

    009.012
    YUSUFALI: But if they violate their oaths after their covenant, and taunt you for your Faith,- fight ye the chiefs of Unfaith: for their oaths are nothing to them: that thus they may be restrained.
    PICKTHAL: And if they break their pledges after their treaty (hath been made with you) and assail your religion, then fight the heads of disbelief - Lo! they have no binding oaths - in order that they may desist.
    SHAKIR: And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.


    And from the Koran through the University of Michigan
    Koran

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    The Immunity
    [9.1] (This is a declaration of) immunity by Allah and His Apostle towards those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement.
    [9.2] So go about in the land for four months and know that you cannot weaken Allah and that Allah will bring disgrace to the unbelievers.
    [9.3] And an announcement from Allah and His Apostle to the people on the day of the greater pilgrimage that Allah and His Apostle are free from liability to the idolaters; therefore if you repent, it will be better for you, and if you turn back, then know that you will not weaken Allah; and announce painful punishment to those who disbelieve.
    [9.4] Except those of the idolaters with whom you made an agreement, then they have not failed you in anything and have not backed up any one against you, so fulfill their agreement to the end of their term; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
    [9.5] So when the sacred months have passed away, then slay the idolaters wherever you find them, and take them captives and besiege them and lie in wait for them in every ambush, then if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, leave their way free to them; surely Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.
    [9.6] And if one of the idolaters seek protection from you, grant him protection till he hears the word of Allah, then make him attain his place of safety; this is because they are a people who do not know.
    [9.7] How can there be an agreement for the idolaters with Allah and with His Apostle; except those with whom you made an agreement at the Sacred Mosque? So as long as they are true to you, be true to them; surely Allah loves those who are careful (of their duty).
    [9.8] How (can it be)! while if they prevail against you, they would not pay regard in your case to ties of relationship, nor those of covenant; they please you with their mouths while their hearts do not consent; and most of them are transgressors.
    [9.9] They have taken a small price for the communications of Allah, so they turn away from His way; surely evil is it that they do.
    [9.10] They do not pay regard to ties of relationship nor those of covenant in the case of a believer; and these are they who go beyond the limits.
    [9.11] But if they repent and keep up prayer and pay the poor-rate, they are your brethren in faith; and We make the communications clear for a people who know.
    [9.12] And if they break their oaths after their agreement and (openly) revile your religion, then fight the leaders of unbelief-- surely their oaths are nothing-- so that they may desist.
    [9.13] What! will you not fight a people who broke their oaths and aimed at the expulsion of the Apostle, and they attacked you first; do you fear them? But Allah is most deserving that you should fear Him, if you are believers.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Oct 7, 2003 #2

    FZ+

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    Close enough?

    This is pretty similar to the Nostradamus haoxes that appeared immediately following 9/11.

    Fearful times brings guillible people?
     
  4. Oct 7, 2003 #3
    I happen to have read a lot about nostradamus quatrains, and I can tell you that there is no solid evidence that nostradamus's predictions were correct. In fact, he predicted world war 3 would happen in august of 1999. As you can see, it never came to pass. It was claimed that he named hitler, but then it was noted that there was a river named "hister" that he was probably referring to. His predictions are very broad and symbolic. They can be interpreted in many ways.
     
  5. Oct 8, 2003 #4
    I think that all of the predictions are HOAXES, each person can twist therir words into a suitable form.
     
  6. Oct 8, 2003 #5
    Gordan Michael-Scallion predicted a war in the middle east ( 20 or 30?) years ago to occur around now (that alone doesn't say much, since there are always wars there :) ), but he also called it WWIII, which it's not exactly, but basically that's true, considering that there are troops from all over the world and the fact that a war on terror never REALLY ends considering that terrorism is an emergent phenomenon, and will pop up as inevitably as vortices in turbulent fluids. To come from a purely objective view though, the only things that he says will happen that do, in a truly consistent and accurate way, are predictions regarding natural disasters, like the time, place, and magnitude of earthquakes.
     
  7. Oct 8, 2003 #6

    Phobos

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    good job Ivan!
    obviously the author assumed many people would not check references

    now would a debunking "reply-all" to such spam be more spam?
     
  8. Oct 8, 2003 #7
    LOL!

    10.31 "For gullible people there is fear in all times"
    -Qur'an
    zoobonic translation
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2003
  9. Oct 9, 2003 #8

    Ivan Seeking

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    I think that on some level, we all want to think that the world is going to end with us.

    This particular boloney seems more like propaganda than doomsday mongering.
     
  10. Oct 9, 2003 #9
    What? I didn't get the impression from the false email you posted that it indicated the end of the world, just that someone made this up to provide support for the US from even the terroists' own extreme religion. I think it was a lie a lot of people wanted to hear, with all the controversy about go/not go to war, that the fundamentalist terrorists' own religous document calling the war right is a big plus for these undecided people.
    (Please note, as what I just wrote may be misinterpreted, (I'm not good at telling how things sound to other people), that in no way am I trying to approve or disapprove of anyone's religion (except the terrorist's extreme religion), hence the use of the word 'extreme', as I was trying to make a distinction between normal Islam, practiced by most Muslims, and extremist Islam, practiced by fools and terrorists.)
     
  11. Oct 9, 2003 #10
    Johnathan,

    Ivan's comments made perfect sence to me when I first read them. Now that you've gone and questioned them they suddenly sound like non-sequiturs.

    Please return them to their former state. Thanks.

    -Zooby
     
  12. Oct 9, 2003 #11

    selfAdjoint

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    Zooby, I didn't read Jonathan's post as questioning the lie, just putting it in context.

    Which is worse, some end-of-the-world crank posting an off-the-wall misstatement, or somebody involved in current politics trying to convince people that some others are "the enemy" with a falsehood?
     
  13. Oct 9, 2003 #12
    02.02 "Great confusion reigns among the children of the Eagle, for none percieves what the other refers to."
    Qu'ran
    Zoobonic Translation
    ------

    I think Johnathan's last post:
    refers to these words of Ivan's:
    But I may be wrong.
     
    Last edited: Oct 9, 2003
  14. Oct 9, 2003 #13
    Few things are as seductive as a lie one wishes to be true.
     
  15. Oct 9, 2003 #14

    Ivan Seeking

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    hehe, just keeping you on your toes. I was speaking to two separate types of propoganda: First, the post 9/11 stuff that was designed to increase fear and doom, as if the WTC incident was a biblical [Nostrodamus] type of event that we deserved, and then this type of claim which is intended as the opposite slant. The funny thing is that people want to believe both lies. It is a dichotomy.
     
  16. Oct 9, 2003 #15
    Zoobyshoe: Yes, I was refering to those words, esp. considering that was his entire post and mine was refering to the post that came previous, ie his(Ivan). Kinda like saying a=a, I don't know why you guy's didn't get that.
    Ivan Seeking: Yeah right, like you actually said that to keep us on our toes. I have no idea where that statement came from, it was completely out of context, but I know it wasn't for keeping us on our toes.
     
  17. Oct 9, 2003 #16

    Ivan Seeking

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