Lost Fans: Discuss Show & Its "Scientific Wackiness

[Galteeth]

The show is going to be wrapping up soon. It's one of the few television programs I enjoyed. Any fans here? Or do people get too turned off by the scientific wackiness?

 

[TheStatutoryApe]

I have never watched it but I became somewhat interested recently when I found references to it in a game I was playing. Until I then I never even knew what it was about. I thought it was just a modernized Gilligan's Island.

 

[Chi Meson]

In the course of a single year, I watched the first 4 seasons on DVD. THis allowed me to fast forward through a lot of filler, but subsequently I think I may have missed a few things. Nonetheless, It started to annoy me in the 3rd & 4th season , yet I still watched.

Through the last couple of "half-seasons" I had been waiting a day after broadcast and watching it streaming (fewer commercials). But the last two weeks I have been tuning in for the broadcast. That must mean something, and I think I know what it is...

I currently have more time on Tuesdays than Wednesdays.

But I like many other "hooked" have to see how they resolve this business. It will either be the most amazing achievement of reticulated plot weaving ever accomplished, or a cheap Deus ex machina cop out.

Or something in-between. Deus ex machina seems to be leading at this point, but we'll see. There has been plenty of genius demonstrated along the way, and boldness too. How can a show survive after killing off so many "favorite" characters?

I do not have the ability to not follow it so close to the end, but I will be glad when it is over.

Actually it appears to be "Dei ex machina," right?

 

[Averagesupernova]

I was hooked right away. There were a couple seasons that were a slight disappointment but I still like it. As for the scientific wackiness? There isn't hardly ANYTHING on TV that isn't weak in that area. Mainly there isn't anything else on TV like it and I don't care for 99% of what else is on TV.

 

[Galteeth]

I have never watched it but I became somewhat interested recently when I found references to it in a game I was playing. Until I then I never even knew what it was about. I thought it was just a modernized Gilligan's Island.

That's what I thought too (more or less a rip-off of lord of the flies with some sci-fi elements and reality show drama), and I had never bothered to watch it. After many people had told me it was the best thing ever, I watched the first five seasons on the internet, and I have to say I was wrong, it's pretty great.

I think it's the kind of thing that is actually better viewing on the internet, since it's a serialized story. Watching it week to week can be kind of frustrating, waiting for resolutions of mysteries that don't come (or come eventually, but as more of a deal where by the time something is "revealed", it has become incrementally obvious in a sort of ambiguous way.)

It's also very well scripted, as watching from the beginning, it's clear that most things were plotted far in advance and they are not just "making it up" as they go along.

 

[Kerrie]

HUGE fan of Lost right here Followed the show since season 2. I think the wackiness is perfect for the setting.

 

[Chi Meson]

It's also very well scripted, as watching from the beginning, it's clear that most things were plotted far in advance and they are not just "making it up" as they go along.

In the last episode, it seems they were loudly touting that fact, when they overlapped the scene from the 3rd episode, 6 years ago, as if to say:

"Remember that bag with the two stones? Yeah? Next to the skeletons? Forgot about it didn't you? Well, here's what they are!"

 

[Janus]

In the last episode, it seems they were loudly touting that fact, when they overlapped the scene from the 3rd episode, 6 years ago, as if to say:

"Remember that bag with the two stones? Yeah? Next to the skeletons? Forgot about it didn't you? Well, here's what they are!"

I doubt that anyone who has really followed the show had forgotten about it. The "black and White" theme seems to recur quite a bit in the show. For instance: later that same season, Claire sees Locke in a dream and he has one white and one black eye.

 

[Kerrie]

I doubt that anyone who has really followed the show had forgotten about it. The "black and White" theme seems to recur quite a bit in the show. For instance: later that same season, Claire sees Locke in a dream and he has one white and one black eye.

I totally forgot about that scene! Speaking of Claire, I am still wondering what her huge significance might be?? She and Desmond...??

 

[Proton Soup]

i've watched it a few times, but never became a "fan". the writers have given themselves the easy out of magic. star trek writers started doing this with time travel, and for me it just gets incoherent after a while. it's OK for X-Files where most episodes are kind of their own self-contained story, but for anything much bigger than that it gets tiresome.

 

[Galteeth]

I totally forgot about that scene! Speaking of Claire, I am still wondering what her huge significance might be?? She and Desmond...??

It was curious that "Locke" didn't mind her not getting on the sub. Maybe she wasn't a candidate?

 

[Galteeth]

i've watched it a few times, but never became a "fan". the writers have given themselves the easy out of magic. star trek writers started doing this with time travel, and for me it just gets incoherent after a while. it's OK for X-Files where most episodes are kind of their own self-contained story, but for anything much bigger than that it gets tiresome.

I actually found this idea to be very compelling. One of the central themes, which was made pretty explicit by the last epeisode, is the conflict between a faith based view of the world and a more materialist based view. The "energy" that is the route of the island's unusual properties is described, depending on the point of view of the characters, as either a mystical force or a strange electromagnetic phenomenon. Either way, the desire to understand it, possesses it, or use it for one's own ends is equally corrupting.

There is also the motif of the faithful trying to "guard" the hidden knowlegde from those who understand it. The roles of Jacob versus the other brother become more complex, as it's not in fact, a simple tale of black versus white, but of two competing world views, originally personified by Jack vs. Locke, who now after six years have switched roles in a sense.

 

[Janus]

It was curious that "Locke" didn't mind her not getting on the sub. Maybe she wasn't a candidate?

No, she wasn't, or at least wasn't one anymore. She was a candidate, but her name was crossed out, as was Kate's.

 

[Huckleberry]

In the course of a single year, I watched the first 4 seasons on DVD. THis allowed me to fast forward through a lot of filler, but subsequently I think I may have missed a few things. Nonetheless, It started to annoy me in the 3rd & 4th season , yet I still watched.

Through the last couple of "half-seasons" I had been waiting a day after broadcast and watching it streaming (fewer commercials). But the last two weeks I have been tuning in for the broadcast. That must mean something, and I think I know what it is...

I currently have more time on Tuesdays than Wednesdays.

But I like many other "hooked" have to see how they resolve this business. It will either be the most amazing achievement of reticulated plot weaving ever accomplished, or a cheap Deus ex machina cop out.

Or something in-between. Deus ex machina seems to be leading at this point, but we'll see. There has been plenty of genius demonstrated along the way, and boldness too. How can a show survive after killing off so many "favorite" characters?

I do not have the ability to not follow it so close to the end, but I will be glad when it is over.

Actually it appears to be "Dei ex machina," right?

This is pretty much how I feel about it too. The first season opened a lot of questions, but the plot made sense. That kept me watching. Then somewhere in the third season, after the hatch exploded all the weirdness started to take over. I'm also dreading a "Deus ex machina" ending. The writers of BSG did that and it seemed to leave the conclusion hanging unattached to the story. An ending that leaves a big question mark is ok with me, but not a story that falls flat. At this point I'll stay tuned just to see what they do with it.

 

[Janus]

This is pretty much how I feel about it too. The first season opened a lot of questions, but the plot made sense. That kept me watching. Then somewhere in the third season, after the hatch exploded all the weirdness started to take over. I'm also dreading a "Deus ex machina" ending. The writers of BSG did that and it seemed to leave the conclusion hanging unattached to the story. An ending that leaves a big question mark is ok with me, but not a story that falls flat. At this point I'll stay tuned just to see what they do with it.

Well, according to the creators, at least some questions will be left open at the conclusion of the series.

 

[Chi Meson]

It will either be the most amazing achievement of reticulated plot weaving ever accomplished, or a cheap Deus ex machina cop out.

Well, it wasn't "A."

Well, according to the creators, at least some questions will be left open at the conclusion of the series.

If by "some," you mean "essentially all," then that's right.

 

[xxChrisxx]

But I like many other "hooked" have to see how they resolve this business. It will either be the most amazing achievement of reticulated plot weaving ever accomplished, or a cheap Deus ex machina cop out.

No offence, it's american made so therefore it'll be a cop out.

If found this (almost) universally to be the case with a lot of shows for a number of reasons.

1. They keep it going too long. "leave them wanting more" is the best idea ever for a show. However for the tv people this means there is still some cash to be squeezed from the show. So you end up with a ravaged husk, that people start to lose interest in.

2. The 20odd episode format makes it quite hard to keep an interesting pace. You get cracking episodes, but you also get really naff ones.

3. American tv execs seem to think that you guys are all thick as...well that you need to be held by the hand. In most series, everything is neatly wrapped up for 'closure'. Or they go too far the other way and leave everything completely up in the air (I'd go as far as saying the ending seemed rushed together), they haven't seemed to have found a happy medium.

I can't even think of any particular examples, I can just remember the feelings I have when a show ends.


EDIT: Didn't read the entire thread, so has it ended now? And was it any good?

 

[Chi Meson]

Yep, all over, thank god.

"Was it any good?"

Well, it wasn't completely "bad," but it certainly did not live up to the potential set by the first two seasons. In fact, it seemed to be the finale to a different show; there was LOST:the first two seasons" then "LOST: leading up to the finale."

 

[Kerrie]

Yep, all over, thank god.

"Was it any good?"

Well, it wasn't completely "bad," but it certainly did not live up to the potential set by the first two seasons. In fact, it seemed to be the finale to a different show; there was LOST:the first two seasons" then "LOST: leading up to the finale."

I would have to agree with that. It would seem that the ending wasn't really known until after the show was on for a few years and the writers went with some direction.

The ending wasn't what I hoped, but still left me pondering for hours about possibilities and maybes.

 

[dgtech]

My roommate was just watching the final episode, when about a few minutes in it I heard a loud "SERIOUSLY?!?!?" - when I checked with him he was no longer watching it, said it was simply too lame to waste time.

I've been watching the first season, but the show got worse and worse, those are the risks of having to figure out things on the run instead of having a solid script from start to end...

I might say "LOST" lost me pretty quickly :)

 

[Jonathan Scott]

Unlike most recent episodes leading towards the ending, the finale didn't seem to make much sense at all. It all seemed to be leading up to some sort of intelligent resolution, but then just sank without trace in a sort of glowing syrup.

 

[rcgldr]

I only watched the last 7 or so episodes, after hearing it was going to end. I assumed that knowing that there was going to be a final episode, that the series would be improved, as was in the case of DollHouse, a mediocre sci-fi series that seemed to be going nowhere, until they knew it was going to be canceled, and the writers responded by doing a reasonable job of turing a never ending series into a coherent story.

Getting back to Lost, it's ending reminded me of Jacob's Ladder. In Jacob's Ladder, the movie goes off in ramdom and bizarre directions, with no seeming purpose, then at the end it switches to a scene where the main character sees his dead daughter who leads him into the light. Then it switches to reality where the entire movie is revealed to simply be the hallucinations of a man dying from a combat wound.

Given this analogy, the entire series, including all of the characters and events, could simply be the hallucinations of a comatose and dying Jack. Then again, Bart Simpson's analysis seems to be just as good, it was all the dog's dream.

 

[Galteeth]

::Spoilers::







The finale wasn't great; it wasn't terrible. It definately seemed like they could have tried something a bit more ambitious, and based on heights reached before, the bar was set very high, and was not reached.
That said, I have to give them credit for pursuing their vision. It would have been fairly easy to do an apocalyptic-battle style finale that probably would have made most people happy, and wrap things up in a neat package.

They went for the more literary ending. It seemed like they were going that way from the "Across the Sea" episode, where it turned out Jacob and his brother weren't the all knowing beings they seemed, but were players in some cycle they didn't understand.

The ending kept it ambiguous, which was very true to the themes of the show. It wasn't clear that the light going out, and Locke with a real body escaping, would have actually lead to anything particularly bad happening. It's up to the viewer to decide; did all this have a purpose or not? Was it just a series of random, senseless events, or did it matter somehow? It's clear from the ending that Jack thought that it did, and that he had fulfilled his "purpose." I actually thought the scene with Jack dying was very well done. He was a well written tragic character. At first he seems like a too good to be true hero, then subtly he's revealed to have major character flaws (like blaming his dad for everything, including the failure of his marriage). As time goes on, he makes more and more wrong decisions, till he eventually gets to to the point of suicidal junkie. I think the implication was, that had the plane crashed, this was where he was heading. Or maybe not (Jacob did "touch" all the people he chose). He eventually finds his purpose, which is apparently to kill Jacob's brother and then die saving the island. It's a sad arc, eventually since maybe it all didn't matter. The final shot with Vincent (the dog) laying next to him as he sees the people he saved and he closes his eyes was immensely sad. Of course, he's been "flashing" to some world/purgatory/alternate dimension where the people aren't as flawed (or maybe weren't tocuhed by Jacob, or whatever), so there is some closure, but it's a sad sort of closure, and that world seems less real, and more of just an "occurrence at owl creek" type of a deal.

Which is something that I'm not sure really worked. Did the alternate reality really add anything? Was it necessary to spend half the season there? The ending would have been slightly different and sadder, but still satisying, without that, and there could have been some other reason desmond was motivated to unplug the hole. It did seem like an odd choice, and probably the most disappointing aspect of the finale. I guess I can understand that the writers wanted it as a sort of epilogue to give all the character arcs resolution.




The writers said they were influenced by the dark tower series, and this did remind me a lot of the final book, which was brilliant at times but ultimately frustrating. This wasn't as bad as that, but I guess i would have liked to see some other approach to ending it.

As far as the questions not being answered, i don't think they weren't. Most of the mysteries were solved by the end, except for the "ultimate" mysteries, did all this have a purpose, where did the island come from, what is the energy "really", etc.

But how lame would it have been to have the answer be that the island wanted you to accept jesus christ as your personal savior. There were motifs that were never completely explained, but I saw that as part of the cyclical mystery (the fertility/pregnancy stuff comes to mind.) The basic questions, like who was this guy, why was this, what was going on here, etc. were all answered, although you may have to go back and think about the narrative for a second. As I mentioned, it seemed sort of clear from the Jaco origin story that they weren't going to give an "ultimate" explanation for the island.


I really liked Locke, inhabited by Jacob's brother, being the one saying it was all meaningless and fighting Jack, who had done a complete role reversal from his earlier interaction with Locke as the man of reason. If you recall, Locke visited Jack, who told him he was crazy thinking that it all had a purpose, before he was about to attempt suicide. But Jack desperately needed his own life to have a purpose, and "killed" Locke again, representing the other perspective.





::Spoliers::

 

[Galteeth]

Here's an example of questions I'm glad they didn't answer. Did Ben execute "the purge" on his own initiative, or was he orderd to by Jacob? Jacob was not a great guy in some respects. He was willing to ruin lives, and create situations that he knew would get people killed to "win" his game. His adopted mother slaughtered the men who were trying to build the wheel to "protect" the island. Did he do the same thing? What was up with the life restoring water? Did it really turn people evil? Sayid was still capable of sacrifice, and Ben ultimately became a slightly better guy. On the other hand, what accounts for what happened to Danielle's team? That kind of stuff, which is left open to interpretation made it a more interesting and thoughtful show then had those answers been spelled out explicitly.

 

[magpies]

So why was this show so popular again? I tryed watching a few episodes and each time I was like this is the worst version of survivor ever. It was just blah imo.

 

[Glennage]

Loved the ending, thought it was great… Just too many unanswered questions for me… I wouldn’t have minded if they just said what the Island is? how it got there, who built it?… Were there Egyptians on the island?… Why didn’t jack turn into smokey when he went to the light? Where was Mr Eko? Where was Walt & Michael? Why didn’t ben join them? Why was it so important for clare to raise her own baby? What do the numbers really mean? Why did the others steal passengers and kids? Why can't women have babies on the island? Why was Widmore kicked off the island? How come Hurley and Miles can talk to dead people? WTF happened in the cabin when it was all supernatural like? What lies in the shadow of the statue? Ash that stopped smokey? Is Richard now mortal? Did Christian know about the Island when he was alive? What happened to Ben’s annie? What was the reason for EVERYONE being connected somehow? Where is Ana Lucia? What was the point in the RULES? What WAS the Island? Why couldn’t MIB leave the island? What would happen if he did? What was MIB/Smokey’s real name? Why did the light turn MIB into Smokey and nobody else? Why the **** was there polar bears on the Island? Why turning the wheel dropped you off in Tunisia? Why was Locke so special? Where did all the island’s structures & landmarks come from? Who build them? Why could desmond survive electromagnetic shocks? What was the light? What happened to Jack’s son? What was the point in all the time travelling? How did the island move? Why? What does it mean the phrase “You are like me now”? wtf? How did Jacob leave the Island whenever he wanted?

I can't be arsed thinking of anymore – but the above proves one thing… I am disappointed about not knowing them.

 

[Galteeth]

Loved the ending, thought it was great… Just too many unanswered questions for me… I wouldn’t have minded if they just said what the Island is? how it got there, who built it?… Were there Egyptians on the island?… Why didn’t jack turn into smokey when he went to the light? Where was Mr Eko? Where was Walt & Michael? Why didn’t ben join them? Why was it so important for clare to raise her own baby? What do the numbers really mean? Why did the others steal passengers and kids? Why can't women have babies on the island? Why was Widmore kicked off the island? How come Hurley and Miles can talk to dead people? WTF happened in the cabin when it was all supernatural like? What lies in the shadow of the statue? Ash that stopped smokey? Is Richard now mortal? Did Christian know about the Island when he was alive? What happened to Ben’s annie? What was the reason for EVERYONE being connected somehow? Where is Ana Lucia? What was the point in the RULES? What WAS the Island? Why couldn’t MIB leave the island? What would happen if he did? What was MIB/Smokey’s real name? Why did the light turn MIB into Smokey and nobody else? Why the **** was there polar bears on the Island? Why turning the wheel dropped you off in Tunisia? Why was Locke so special? Where did all the island’s structures & landmarks come from? Who build them? Why could desmond survive electromagnetic shocks? What was the light? What happened to Jack’s son? What was the point in all the time travelling? How did the island move? Why? What does it mean the phrase “You are like me now”? wtf? How did Jacob leave the Island whenever he wanted?

I can't be arsed thinking of anymore – but the above proves one thing… I am disappointed about not knowing them.

Some of those questions were in fact explicitly answered.

 

[Glennage]

Some of those questions were in fact explicitly answered.

Please show me the answers.

"Lost" always was a show with only one topic: the redemption, that said in other words is the acceptance of the destiny, which in the end is the death.

The majority of we stretch in the present, immersing the life in a bottle of nothing. We sink ourselves denying the destiny. The famous "flashsideways" of "Lost" are precisely that: the happy life of the main characters, what they would like to have been but they weren´t; and they were not for a simple motive: because it was not their destiny. Their destiny was to die, since of all, but to die of a certain way. The wonderful and exciting of the end of "Lost" is that it seems to say to us that there is a way of overcome the death, and not only it is to sacrifice itself pursuing something at the top, but remembering. If we do not remember, we are dead. If we live through a life plunged in the oblivion, in the denial and the ignorance, all our happiness will be only apparent. To survive and to take forward a normal existence,it was implying a cost for the protagonists: to forget.

To remember leads them to dying, and at the same time to entering this space where the time does not exist, where only there is space and light, which is not another thing that the place where the spark of the life ignites. We live for these instants that make us happy, small moments that we load until the end. Let's think that we are in our bed of death, minutes before of expiring: what would we remember? The people that we loved and who made us suffer and laugh, that tied us to the life and removed us from the death. The bourgeois comfort is so small thing at this time. We are grateful even badly that we spend it, because we accept our destination. To deny the death is to deny the life.

How many times in the series we listen to the phrase " let it go ", " move on"? It is present from the first season, when Jack was a scientist stuck to the fear of the life (it is interesting to think how much exists the denial of the death in the medicine, of the men trying to appease desperate the irreversible thing, but forgetting the big answers, expanding the moment of acceptance). " To let it to go " it is knowing the motive for which you are in the Island (replace Island by World). Because of it Locke, from the beginning, understands so well the functioning of the game, because him is not afraid to the death. When the Black Smoke drags it to a hollow and Jack rescues it, Locke asks him to let it go, that he will not spend anything. It is clear that Jack thinks that something will spend (the death) and rescues it.


Another clear example that he says to us that the topic of "Lost" always was this one: Charlie in the third season, when he finds out about his death across Desmond. Initially, and thanks to the help of Scot, he tries to clear and to extend his life, but then he realizes that the better thing is to sacrifice itself for the others. There was no another option. Eventually, there is no another option for anybody. The Charlie of the "flashsideways" is a Charlie very similar to the Charlie of the Island, because the two share this fascination for living at the edge of the death without accepting it.

Let's think about Jesus, since "Lost" has insisted so much on the religious metaphors. But let's think about him as a common man, not as the son of God. Simply a man who realizes that it is special, that knows that he will be crucified,and that will have to happen for an atrocious torment, but only to be reborn. The God's voice is absent in the New Testament, because God is a Man who goes beyond the death. The whole history of the New Testament is a subterfuge to say to us that the resurrection is possible, as long as we die accepting what we truly are. In a Biblical "flashsideway", Jesus had been an assistant of happy and calm carpenter, and he had never died in a so traumatic way.


The fear is paralyzing. And it is the opposite to the love. The one who is afraid can not love. Because of it, in order to accept their deaths they must find his pairs in the Island (the World). The history of Penny and Desmond is probably the most significant (it tells the history of a of separations and reunions, of learning that a constant exists beyond the cold universe), but also we have Kate and Jack, Sawyer and Juliet, Charlie and Claire, Hurley and Libby, Sun and Jin. They can be loved and meet again when they lose the fear.


It is not this reading much more satisfactory than knowing "what happened with Walt's high ghost "? Surely there will be thousands of theories over what happened or not, and the scriptwriters are sufficiently intelligent to leave the fans with desire of more, but beyond this we must celebrate that they have decided to approach to the topics that will make the show an immortal history. Because as soon as we know what are the numbers, what do we still have to know? We throw the DVDs to a side, forget them and go to bed to sleeping a siesta. But with this class of questions and answers, we will be able to return to the series again and again, or every time when the distress of the death assaults us.

We know already that every eye opened on the beginning of a chapter it was meaning only on thing: a new opportunity to be redeemed.

Good luck.

 

[Chi Meson]

So why was this show so popular again? I tryed watching a few episodes and each time I was like this is the worst version of survivor ever. It was just blah imo.

I can't believe that you would actually expect anyone to prove to you in a forum thread that this show was "one of the best ever" (or any other superlative, I'm not sure exactly where I'd rate it yet).

No one is going to convince you that this show was great, and no one should feel they need to make you want to watch it. At the same time, please realize that it has spawned a lot of intelligent conversation, and has been followed by many people, not all of them numb-brains.

You didn't like it, that's fine. Now it's time to let go.

 

[Galteeth]

Please show me the answers.

I understand your general point, but there were specific plot points you mentioned that were in fact answered. If this was not a rhetorical question, I could list the answers to some of the questions you posed (maybe I just have a good memory for stupid plot details?) Do you want me to do that?

 

[Galteeth]

Please show me the answers.

I understand your general point. Some of the plot questions you brought up do have specific, unambiguos answers however. I wasn't sure if you were asking a rhetorical question here. Do you want a point by point on some of those questions?

 

[Glennage]

I understand your general point, but there were specific plot points you mentioned that were in fact answered. If this was not a rhetorical question, I could list the answers to some of the questions you posed (maybe I just have a good memory for stupid plot details?) Do you want me to do that?

If you would be so kind, Sir.

 

[Galteeth]

So why was this show so popular again? I tryed watching a few episodes and each time I was like this is the worst version of survivor ever. It was just blah imo.

Everybody I know who has tried watching it by just watching a few random episodes has hated it. Contrarily, everybody I know who started with the first episode loved it. As an extremely heavily serialized story, it works more like a novel then a conventional television show. Starting in the middle isn't going to work.

 

[Janus]

So why was this show so popular again?

It was thought provoking for many.

I tryed watching a few episodes and each time I was like this is the worst version of survivor ever.

Having never watched even a single episode of "Survivor", I can't really comment on that.