Archery Qestion about balance

  1. I have been shooting both a Vertical Crossbow and a Horizontal Crossbow, I find that I shoot the vertical crossbow (off hand or free hand, without a rest) much more accuratlly than I shoot the Horizontal Crossbow, Is there a technical reason why? Most all vertical compound bow shooters (shooting in the traditional style, drawing by hand and releasing) out shoot horizontal crossbow shooters in contest (freehand). I have taken the same bow and shot it both ways and my results were the same. Is this because of gravity pulling on a wider surface or object, the limbs being horizontal, is causing more instability? Is shooting in the vertical position creating more of a "plumb bob" effect?
    Take a look at the web site for more information,
    www.verticalcrossbow.com please look at the "In-Line Crossbow" page
    Please help,
    Jerry
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Having shot both styles of bow myself, I have an opinion. It's easier to sight down the arrow of a classic style bow, for me. But it comes down to practice
     
  4. We are not talking "Tradional Archery" and looking down the arrowwhen shooting, we are using sights. All things being equal, is there a difference because of some force of nature acting on the object being held in the two different position, vertical vs horizontal?

    Jerry
     
  5. Take the human out of the equation. Set up a "robot".
     
  6. You guy's are not getting what I am asking. I know a crossbow shot horizontally is just as accurate if it is shot in a vice, "a bow, is a bow, is a bow" This is a balance qusetion, holding and shooting the two bows by hand held methods.
    I have compared it to holding a 48" rod vertically and horizontally. In vertical it is easier to control and move around than in Horizontal. Why? Try it yourself

    Jerry
     
  7. Jerry, we have been trying to address your accuracy issue.

    Your balance issue your asking seems to me an issue of needing more practice.

    Assuming your grip on the bow is centered at the balance point of your bow.

    Perhaps Ted Nugent can explain better than us :)
     
  8. Alfang,
    Watch this Video and tell me if I need more practice to be accurate.

     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 25, 2014
  9. well I'm done trying to help you, I don't know what your asking anymore.

    To answer your question, If your comfortable with your skills shooting a pumpkin at 100 yards, that's all that counts, My self, I'd keep going till I got a group into an apple, But I was a Marine Sniper so I expect a lot from myself.
     
  10. berkeman

    Staff: Mentor

    Do you notice a difference in sight movement between the two orientations as you hold and release? If your sight wander is the same between the two, maybe there is a difference in the tolerance of the jump in the hold for the two orientations...?
     
  11. That would be best. You are not answering my question. The question has to do with balance and control when holding the same object vertical vs horizontal in this case a (bow).
    And, if there were any formulas, studies etc... that might explain what is best and how force might be distibuted on it to make the a difference.
    Thats all,
     
  12. berkeman

    Staff: Mentor

    Mellow out. People are just trying to help you. Please answer my questions in my reply.
     
  13. No, the sights are not the issue. I use a simple pin and a peep when shooting in the vertical position and use a powered scope in Horizontal, the same bow. As I stated before, vertical, compound bow, shooters typically out shoot horizontal, crossbow, shooter. I am wondering if it has to do with the vertical orientation being more balanced and controllable than horrizontal. There has to be some studies performed on objects V vs H. I figured someone on this sight would know the answer.
    Thank you,
     
  14. jim hardy

    jim hardy 4,382
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member
    2014 Award

    That was my first thought, but ..........
    I'll guess it has to do with relationship of handgrip to cross member.

    In one configuratoin they're both in vertical plane
    and in other handgrip is vertical but crossmember horizontal, so center of handgrip is more closely in line with cg of whole bow i'd think..

    Probably one of those "couples" we studied in freshman physics.


    just a guess, hope it triggers somebody's thinking cap.

    old jim
     
  15. Now your getting it!
    That is what I am looking for, but some documented or publiished proof that it is or something like is true.
    Please keep trying,
    Jerry
     
  16. berkeman

    Staff: Mentor

    With respect, you did not answer the specific questions in my reply. I am a championship pistol shot, and a pretty accomplished vertical compound bow shot. I think I can help answer your questions, but only if you answer my specific questions.
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  17. jim hardy

    jim hardy 4,382
    Science Advisor
    Gold Member
    2014 Award

    Thanks Jerry

    i jumbled thoughts while typing....

    CG and handgrip's center of effort are more closely aligned on a vertical bow i'd think, draw a view from rear.....


    but it's not yet clear in my head how all those torques sum up.
    I'm not one of the sharper tacks here at PhysicsForum ,,
    and it's past my bedtime.

    Do you conciously twist on the handgrip to keep bow vertical, and push it sideways for aim? Those two actions will interact differently on the two configurations, i think, due to couples..

    Will look in again. I learn a lot that way.

    EDIT Berkeman IS among the sharpest here - listen well to his input.
    And i've never shot one of those things.

    old jim
     
    Last edited: Dec 31, 2012
  18. Hi Berkman,
    Please ask me the question in a different way, I answered the best I understood it. But as I said
    sighting is not the issue. I am trying to prove that vertical, compound bow, shooters are out shooting the horizontal, crossbow, shooters due to shooting a vertical bow and it being more balanced and controllable because it is V and not H. Is that your experience? or have you not shot any crossbows before?
     
  19. I think your chasing your tail, I don't know where you get your data or idea that one type of bow is better than another and that there's a scientific reason for it.

    If you give me the horizontal cross bow which you think is harder to shoot, and let me practice for a couple weeks I'd shoot it as good as you with your choice of bows.

    Maybe it's more simple, Maybe the better shooters with tons of practice and experience just feel more comfortable with a vertical bow, so that's what they shoot, they'd probably be just as good with a horizontal bow.
    And help us out here, are you a competition shooter? or just plinking around with your buddies?
     
  20. This isn't an archery forum so I very much doubt many of us will have fired crossbows. I'm not even sure of their legal status where I live.

    We believe the laws of physics apply equally wherever you are in the universe - so that doesn't account for any difference between H and V.

    Any difference will be because not all of the system is being rotated between H and V. So no surprise if they interact differently. In rifle shooting it's well known that the prone position is more accurate than the standing. I don't see why it should be a surprise that crossbows behave differently in H and V. The reasons are likely to be complex.
     
  21. OK,
    Lets try this. Would it take less work or effort to control , lets say, a 24 oz solid rod 48" long, 1' in diameter in V or H? It seems to me that finding the center point is so critical when in the H orientation and not so in V. I am trying to establish, as a manufacturer of archery equipment, that, as all archers know and have proven, shooting a bow V is more accurate and more consistent than H (freehanded). I know this is not an Archery Forum, but I have come to you guys to see if ithis can be explained in technical terms, or am I "chasing my tail".
    Sorry if I have confused you guys,
    Jerry
     
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