Exploring the Empty Space of Atoms: The Zero-Dimensional Particle Theory

In summary: No, atoms are made up of protons and neutrons and electrons. The electrons have mass but are dimensionless. The protons and neutrons have mass and are not dimensionless.But atoms are still just empty space right?That depends on what you think of as empty space. See below.
  • #1
Nav
39
1
If all fundamental particles are zero dimensional, are atoms empty space? And they are zero dimensional, does that mean that we don't exist?
 
Astronomy news on Phys.org
  • #2
Nav said:
If all fundamental particles are zero dimensional, are atoms empty space?
Whoever told you that all fundamental particles are of zero dimension has mislead you. Electrons are, but others are not. Atoms are something like 99.99+% empty.

And they are zero dimensional, does that mean that we don't exist?
I don't know about you, but I'm really confident that I exist I'm also pretty sure that @Drakkith exists because I just can't see a figment of my imagination having made up being from Texas :smile:
 
  • #3
Nav said:
If all fundamental particles are zero dimensional, are atoms empty space? And they are zero dimensional, does that mean that we don't exist?

Obviously we exist, otherwise we wouldn't be here to have this conversation (philosophical aspects of this issue aside).

The size of a fundamental particle is difficult to talk about. If you probe an electron at smaller and smaller distances, you eventually find that the electron is better thought of as being 'smeared out' across some volume of space.

phinds said:
Whoever told you that all fundamental particles are of zero dimension has mislead you. Electrons are, but others are not. Atoms are something like 99.99+% empty.

As far as I know, all fundamental particles are routinely said to have zero size, not just electrons.

phinds said:
I don't know about you, but I'm really confident that I exist I'm also pretty sure that @Drakkith exists because I just can't see a figment of my imagination having made up being from Texas :smile:

I'm just a figment of your fig Newtons imagination.
 
  • #4
Drakkith said:
Obviously we exist, otherwise we wouldn't be here to have this conversation (philosophical aspects of this issue aside).

The size of a fundamental particle is difficult to talk about. If you probe an electron at smaller and smaller distances, you eventually find that the electron is better thought of as being 'smeared out' across some volume of space.
As far as I know, all fundamental particles are routinely said to have zero size, not just electrons.
I'm just a figment of your fig Newtons imagination.
But atoms are still just empty space right?
 
  • #5
Drakkith said:
As far as I know, all fundamental particles are routinely said to have zero size, not just electrons..
Hm ... I guess I've misunderstood that all these years. My misunderstanding was based on the common statement that atoms are 99.99%+ empty space. If everything's a point particle, then EVERYTHING is empty space. That doesn't seem to make sense.

EDIT: Oh, I see. Quarks are fundamental but protons and neutrons are not. My mistake.
 
  • #6
Nav said:
But atoms are still just empty space right?
No, atoms are made up of protons and neutrons and electrons. The electrons have mass but are dimensionless. The protons and neutrons have mass and are not dimensionless.
 
  • #7
Nav said:
But atoms are still just empty space right?

That depends on what you think of as empty space. See below.

phinds said:
Hm ... I guess I've misunderstood that all these years. My misunderstanding was based on the common statement that atoms are 99.99%+ empty space. If everything's a point particle, then EVERYTHING is empty space. That doesn't seem to make sense.

Indeed. That's why I prefer to think of an atom as being filled with various fields and such of the smeared out electrons, protons, etc.

Nav, I can't answer your question except to say that I know of no concrete view of whether an atom is empty space or not. The atomic and subatomic world appears to defy conventional descriptions for these things.
 
  • Like
Likes bhobba
  • #8
Nav said:
If all fundamental particles are zero dimensional, are atoms empty space? And they are zero dimensional, does that mean that we don't exist?

Of course not. In Euclidean geometry a point has zero size but 'point' objects that occupy such a space means it contains something so obviously is not empty. And where you would got the idea it means we don't exist has me beat - of course we do. We discuss science here - not word games.

Thanks
Bill
 
  • #9
Nav said:
If all fundamental particles are zero dimensional, are atoms empty space? And they are zero dimensional, does that mean that we don't exist?
Well I would think it should be fairly easy for you to conclude as a matter of observation that you do in fact exist.
Therefore something must be wrong with your premise.
 
  • #11
Drakkith said:
Indeed. That's why I prefer to think of an atom as being filled with various fields and such of the smeared out electrons, protons, etc..

In many ways Quantum Field Theory is a much more satisfactory view of the world.

To the OP you might find the following illuminating of the kind of questions you are pondering:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/0473179768/?tag=pfamazon01-20

Thanks
Bill
 
  • Like
Likes Drakkith
  • #12
Nav said:
If all fundamental particles are zero dimensional, are atoms empty space?

If you choose any point inside an atom, there is an non-zero probability that you will find an electron there if you look. Whether the electron is a point particle or not, that doesn't sound like empty space to me.
 
  • #13
Nav said:
If all fundamental particles are zero dimensional, are atoms empty space? And they are zero dimensional, does that mean that we don't exist?
There is no such thing as empty space. And you can argue there are no particles either. There are only fields and their schaumkommen(appearances) as Schroedinger put it.
 

1. What is the Zero-Dimensional Particle Theory?

The Zero-Dimensional Particle Theory is a scientific theory that explains the behavior and characteristics of particles at the atomic level. It proposes that at the smallest scale, particles have no dimension and can occupy a single point in space. This theory helps us understand the fundamental building blocks of matter and their interactions.

2. How is this theory different from other theories of atomic structure?

The Zero-Dimensional Particle Theory differs from other theories, such as the Bohr model or the electron cloud model, in that it does not assign any dimension to particles. Instead, it suggests that particles are infinitesimal points with no physical size.

3. What are the implications of the Zero-Dimensional Particle Theory?

This theory has significant implications for our understanding of the universe. It suggests that the building blocks of matter have no physical size, challenging our traditional concept of matter. It also has implications for quantum mechanics and the behavior of particles on a subatomic level.

4. How does this theory relate to the concept of empty space?

The Zero-Dimensional Particle Theory is closely related to the concept of empty space. It suggests that particles are essentially empty space, with no physical size or dimension. This theory challenges our perception of what constitutes matter and raises questions about the nature of space itself.

5. What evidence supports the Zero-Dimensional Particle Theory?

There is a significant amount of evidence that supports the Zero-Dimensional Particle Theory. This includes observations from particle accelerators, quantum experiments, and the behavior of subatomic particles. Additionally, this theory is consistent with other scientific principles, such as the uncertainty principle and the wave-particle duality of particles.

Similar threads

  • Quantum Physics
Replies
31
Views
2K
  • Astronomy and Astrophysics
Replies
1
Views
2K
  • Quantum Physics
Replies
1
Views
589
  • Astronomy and Astrophysics
2
Replies
37
Views
5K
  • Sci-Fi Writing and World Building
Replies
11
Views
1K
Replies
4
Views
1K
  • Astronomy and Astrophysics
Replies
1
Views
1K
Replies
1
Views
690
  • Thermodynamics
Replies
7
Views
822
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
3
Views
778
Back
Top