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Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being Shallow?

  1. Jun 21, 2010 #1
    Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?"

    As the title, Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?", would suggest, my hypothesis is that we (or at the very least, "I") have had trouble talking and dealing with women because i got nervous before talking to her. this is a typical story when you think about it:

    "Hey man, there's this girl i like i see in class and i need to know what to say to her."
    "What do you mean "what to say to her?"
    "Well, you know, talk. i haven't talked to her yet."
    "Are you saying you haven't talk to this girl, but the reason you're scared to talk to her is that you like her?"
    "Basically."
    "How can you say you like her if you haven't talked to her?"
    "Um... I dunno, i mean she's cute and she's in my class so she's probably at least kind of smart."
    "But you like her based only upon what you've seen and observed from her?"
    "yes, as it is the scientific way!"
    "Can't you see you're only judging her upon her looks? Even while she may be smart, you still haven't said a word to her You probably haven't event made eye contact with her. does she know you exist?"
    "Um.... Well... I mean she's in the same class as me, i notice people in my classes. I see no reason as to why she wouldn't also possess this ability."
    "Tricky story there, Generic Creepy Physics Student's Name, truth is: you've been creepin' her on her looks, man. not cool. you should never like a girl based on what she looks like."


    And thus concludes the example of the story. I believe this nervousness is to do with liking or otherwise being sexually goal oriented with her. Thus, placing some mental place value in my brain based solely upon her looks and outward portrayal of her being. This is incredulously shallow behaviour that i deem problematic, so to say, with my principle motive of getting to know this female with interest in 'touching some boobs' while i'm at it.



    point is, go talk to people. i'm saying this to myself. Anyone who also feels this to be a portrayal of their excuse for a 'sex-life' may choose to think about the topic and determine whether or not their own behaviour needs analyzing; i know mine does.
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 21, 2010 #2
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    I believe that you think too much, but at the same time, I like to analyze my own and other people's behavior.

    First, think about the fundamental level of the contact between males and females. I know to some people it's horrible to say that, but we're in a science forum, so I'm not too afraid of the reactions: humans are nothing more but animals. We share the same goal as dogs,
    monkeys, and any living being. We want to reproduce to make the race evolve. If that weren't our goal, then we wouldn't be here today.

    Humans just tend to find more subtle ways to this, in order to respect each other and
    then try to make the world a good place for everyone. If you don't eat your neighbor's
    children, then he will not eat yours and so on.

    I might be a bit far from the subject, my point was to say that talking to a girl/boy is something that comes "naturally". The nervousness, imho, comes from two things. The
    first is the society we live in which made classes: popular girls/boys, nerds, etc.
    The second is, still imho, based on some instinct: if I go talk to the girl, and my profile doesn't fit her needs, then I will be rejected. Rejection means no mating and no mating means no kids and thus the end of my "family". As I said above, it is a need brought by evolution. All the rest is details.

    If we just reproduced and then died straight away, this would stop there. But here,
    even after you have kids, you keep living for years. Thus comes the need to avoid pain.
    Living in a group reduces the probability that you will be in pain. The reason we live
    in a couple of 2 humans is something that I can't really explain though.

    Ok, I don't know if I said anything useful or interesting about the subject. If not,
    feel free to tell me and I'll delete my post ;)

    Edit: Ok, I just realized that this thread was in the Relationships forum, when I thought it was in some part of the Biology forum. So I think you might not like my answer at all :P
     
  4. Jun 21, 2010 #3
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    Well, I'd be interested to know what I'm supposed to think about in this instance. I can honestly say that I don't understand a word of your question.

    Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?"

    Are intelligent, socially awkward males unsuccessful women? That's possible, if I think about it, I guess. But I suppose, then, that that means that the converse is true that successful women are actually intelligent, socially awkward males? I don't think of myself as any of those things and I'm a relatively successful woman, as far as those things go. So.

    But men are unsuccessful women "due to being shallow"? Sorry, I'm lost there. Who's shallow? The men who want to be women or the successful women who are actually socially awkward men?

    Any help you want to provide would be welcome.
     
  5. Jun 21, 2010 #4

    Pengwuino

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    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    I think he meant "Are intelligent, socially akward males unsuccessful with women due to being shallow".
     
  6. Jun 21, 2010 #5

    Evo

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    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    Intelligent, socially awkward men are the opposite of shallow.
     
  7. Jun 21, 2010 #6

    BobG

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    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    What in the world does that story have to do with the title?

    And that's a bizarre theory, anyway! You're infatuated with some girl you don't know, but hope is a lesbian, and that somehow makes you an unsuccessful woman?

    You should write country songs. It will make you feel better.

    Edit: At least I knew what forum I was in.
     
  8. Jun 21, 2010 #7
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    Ooookay, but who is shallow, exactly?
     
  9. Jun 21, 2010 #8

    Pengwuino

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    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    Oh on the contrary! Being socially akward or intelligent in no way precludes someone from being shallow.
     
  10. Jun 21, 2010 #9
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    Here's a reality check for the sensitive fellows out there (I was one of you once.)

    Males are attracted to looks. Females are attracted to a man's mastery over his environment. Shallow isn't even on the radar as a quality to be sought or avoided by either gender.
     
  11. Jun 22, 2010 #10
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?


    yes, 'With Women' is what i meant. As for my rebuttal to you, i would say that women think that because when these 'Intelligent, socially awkward men' actually do succeed with a woman, the female perceives these types of males to be mature and not-so-coincidentally, 'Intelligent' because again, not-so-coincidentally they are more 'Intelligent' and mature. However, failures are where they real problems lie and where this problem occurs. 'Shallow' may in fact too 'Harsh' a word, but i see a strong resemblance with it. So, i believe syntax and wording are at cause for our disagreement with my hypothesis.
     
  12. Jun 22, 2010 #11
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    Pardon me? :confused: As best I can tell, incoherence appears to be the issue here.
     
  13. Jun 22, 2010 #12
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    It's a sad day when one can't understand basic words and reasoning. I'm sorry you have to live like that. must be hell.
     
  14. Jun 22, 2010 #13
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    I have to agree with Julz. It's not necessarily shallow to be initially interested in someone based upon their physical appearance. We are in fact organisms following sets of actions that allow evolution to occur, i.e. looking for a mate based on their capacity to bear offspring as shown by physical attributes, or more subtly how "attractive" they are. I understand your ideas, somewhat; It may be important to also get a better vision of the person you find enticing by getting to know them personally. The problem with following this route initially with every person you encounter is that you may end up with a lot of friends you don't find appropriate as your significant other, or you may strike gold! I think this is highly unlikely if you're scared to talk to a pretty girl though :]
     
  15. Jun 22, 2010 #14

    DaveC426913

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    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    Auk, you are indeed coming across as rather incoherent. The subject of the thread is the first stumbling block, not just because there's a key word missing but because it's awkwardly constructed the adjectives are ambiguous as to which noun they apply to. You might want to reconsider before accusing someone of having trouble understanding basic words and reasoning.

    Perhaps the reason you aren't having luck with women because you keep insulting them before any real communication can happen... :biggrin:
     
  16. Jun 22, 2010 #15

    BobG

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    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    I have to admit that at first I figured you must be a non-native speaker of English, but some of the other errors (not knowing how to close your italics, for example) made me decide otherwise.
     
  17. Jun 22, 2010 #16

    Mentallic

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    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    Did you even bother to read the OP? While his title is quite misleading, it simply means you should read what he says in order to get a clear picture of it all.

    Just because you are an intelligent, socially awkward male, doesn't mean anything when it comes to the way you are attracted to women. Some are shallow, some aren't.
    Social awkwardness doesn't mean you wouldn't have any friends, and it's likely possible that you could find a girl to become friends with because you like her (or even like her after getting to know her).

    By the way, if you realize you're socially awkward, wouldn't you at least try to change that?
     
  18. Jun 22, 2010 #17
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    Interesting. I was honestly trying to understand what you're on about, and you are patently rude. Is that social awkwardness? That's a real question.
     
  19. Jun 22, 2010 #18

    DaveC426913

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    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    What the *** is going on with this thread?? You're accusing Georgina of not reading the OP? Of course she did; it's very labrynthine. It's taken a half doizen people in a dozen posts to tease out what the OP really meant to say!
     
  20. Jun 22, 2010 #19
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    While the idea is not very well communicated I found it pretty obvious that the OP was referring to males who are too timid to approach women being "shallow" because their desire to speak to said women, and their difficulty in accomplishing this, is based mostly if not completely on the female's looks. I think that the interest here is that we geeky nice guys tend to believe that we are less superficial, "and if only that hot chick would just notice us and give us a chance they might figure that out about us!"

    Up until the last few posts I really believed that people were just yanking his chain about not understanding.
     
  21. Jun 23, 2010 #20
    Re: Are Intelligent, Socially Awkward Males Unsuccessful Women Due to Being "Shallow?

    Okay, SA, for real, here. Males who are too timid to approach women think that they -- as in *the men* -- are being shallow or that the women they approach are shallow? The socially awkward guys are shallow because they appreciate or attracted to a woman's appearance and that therefore makes the awkward guy shallow? Is that the question? For real? I'm asking.

    I was joking a bit in the beginning, but I really can't tease out what the issue is, here. Being talked down to as if I'm some sort of imbecile because someone else can't write a coherent sentence is hardly appropriate. I'm more than willing to offer a mature, balanced woman's point of view if someone is asking a genuine question, but I can barely make sense of this fellow. And if rude comebacks are de rigueur with these fellows, then -- as Dave pointed out -- it's no wonder they experience problems dealing with women. The issue isn't social awkwardness, it's being condescending that's putting the kibosh on any relationship potential they may have.

    Now, speaking to you, SA, you nice geeky guys think of yourselves as less superficial. Fine. Likely you are, long term. It's okay to own up to initial attraction to a woman being about appearances. Appearances only hold up for so long before people of substance -- both men and women -- require a bit more from the people they're involved with. I've met, dated, hung out with, worked with, some of the most stunning specimens of human beings you'd ever want to meet. Five minutes with those guys (male models) -- as potential dates -- and women (female models) as potential friends -- let me know whether or not I'd like to spend any further time with them. Looks got them to the table, who they are and what they're about and what they value kept them in my life, not the way they looked.

    Similarly, I've met and known some -- by anyone's test -- less than classically physically attractive people who, over time, became more and more physically irresistible to me because of the incredibly bright, clever, intelligent, and warm people that they are. They lasted as relationships and friendships for far longer than the people who were immediate eye candy. That's not to say that the eye candy didn't catch my eye, because they did. And I don't think that was shallow of me, that's just simple aesthetics. You're naturally drawn to something/someone who looks appealing. So, no, not shallow, just the first step in the weeding out process. People of substance have always made my long-term list.

    I can certainly answer what you asked, SA, and I hope I have, coherently. As for AUK 1138 and Mentalic, maybe if they get over themselves, they can cobble together a reasonable and polite idea and/or question and possibly get a reasonable and polite response. Women aren't that difficult to sort out. Being nice to us is a really, really good start.

    If that wasn't what the OP meant to ask, it doesn't matter much to me any longer.
     
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