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Are scientists being assassinated?

  1. Jan 25, 2005 #1

    Ivan Seeking

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    This story has been running in the fringe for some time. One major newspaper has now addressed the claim. Personally, I don't have an opinion yet other than the automatic response: It is probably just a coincidence and/or another internet conspiracy theory.

    http://www.columbiatribune.com/2005/Jan/20050123News004.asp [Broken]

    Quayle
    http://freepress2005.blogspot.com/2005/01/author-theorizes-40-microbiologists.html [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 1, 2017
  2. jcsd
  3. Jan 25, 2005 #2
    you better watch out!
     
  4. Jan 26, 2005 #3

    matthyaouw

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    I'm suddenly glad I went for for earth sciences over biology...
     
  5. Jan 26, 2005 #4

    selfAdjoint

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    I notice that the articles doesn't mention any other scientists except Im, except the five Israeli ones whose plane was shot down. That case can certainly be explained on other bases?
     
  6. Jan 26, 2005 #5

    selfAdjoint

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    I notice that the articles doesn't mention any other scientists thant Im, except the five Israeli ones whose plane was shot down. That case can certainly be explained on other bases?
     
  7. Jan 26, 2005 #6

    cronxeh

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    Pretty strange that it happened right after Sept 11th..

    These researches knew how to make bio/chem weapons and instead of assigning a body guard to each one, 'they', probably decided to take them out :surprised
     
  8. Jan 26, 2005 #7

    Moonbear

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    If you eliminate the suicide, stroke, and plane crash victims, then rule out the one where they think the guy's daughter killed him, look at the locations of all the rest. The murdered ones are hardly happening in the middle of suburbia, they're happening in places like parking garages in some pretty rough cities. Rather than focusing on their profession, one should focus on other local crimes fitting the same pattern. It's more likely each was just one of many victims if attacks in crime-ridden neighborhoods. I was just talking with a colleague today about the extra ventillation provided by the bullet holes in buildings at Johns Hopkins. I'm sure if one day someone gets killed by one of those bullets, the conspiracy theorist can make some connection between their research and that of these others killed.

    Of course, this isn't to say there couldn't be some fringe group out there bumping off microbiologists. It's certainly not a conspiracy theory that primate researchers are frequently under attack from radical animal rights groups, they come right out and admit that's what they are doing. But, the variety of ways these people were killed and the number of places around the world where they lived suggests it's a better example of why data mining is a bad way to find solid conclusions.
     
  9. Jan 26, 2005 #8

    Hurkyl

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    I disagree -- it's an example of data mining used badly. Like any other statistical tool, data mining is great when used properly.
     
  10. Jan 26, 2005 #9

    cronxeh

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    yes but the fact still remains - the top scientists were killed - one way or another..

    i mean seriously.. how many biology ph.d's are out there?

    according to bls.gov : Biological scientists held about 75,000 jobs in 2002. I dont know about this.. I mean I saw most of those guys on the science channel - David Kelly (assassinated in 2003), Vladimir Pasechnik (i saw him on discovery times channel).. besides their age.. 40.. 46.. 50.. 55.. 65.. 70.. do ppl die at those age?? hardly
     
  11. Jan 27, 2005 #10

    matthyaouw

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    Yes, top scientists did die, but that is not the issue. Everyone dies. What we need is evidence that they were specifically targetted due to their profession.

    The David Kelly who you mention... Are you referring to the UK government scientist? If so, i think you'll find he took his own life, and the authorities had no reason to suspect otherwise.
     
  12. Jan 27, 2005 #11

    cronxeh

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    there was an inquiry, and he didnt commit suicide - anybody with an IQ over 40 can figure that out

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/3082707.stm
    http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/kellyinquiry/ [Broken]

    http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/101403_kelly_1.html

    Besides if you really get down to it and think about it - what biologist would commit suicide? they went into the field BECAUSE they loved life and saw thea beauty in it. It makes sense for an MBA or a financial analyst to jump outa the window, for good.
     
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  13. Jan 27, 2005 #12

    matthyaouw

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    Yes, there was an inquiry into his death, but it was not a murder inquiry. Do you understand the purpose of the enquiry?
    A summary can be found here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hutton_Inquiry
    And the full enquiry here: http://www.the-hutton-inquiry.org.uk/content/report/ [Broken]

    If the information in your third reference were to be entirely correct, why was there no press coverage, and why wasn't there a murder enquiry?

    As for your last arguement: Are you serious? You make no sense whatsoever. There are more factors involved than career. being a biologist does not mean unconditional happiness, nor does being a financial analyst mean unhappiness.
     
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  14. Jan 27, 2005 #13
    Yes, it is nearing fifty, and they are Microbiologists, that work with pathogens, and bio-weapons. I know one in Utah, that no one mentioned yet.
     
  15. Jan 27, 2005 #14

    Moonbear

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    Not a very good argument there. Biologists are just as prone to suffer depression as the next person, and any career scientist faces a lot of competition, and ups and downs, and dry spells in funding that can be incredibly stressful and depressing. You don't go into biology because you love life and see the beauty in it, it's just like all the other scientists, where you see a problem that needs solving and you want to solve it.

    If I went hunting for it, I could probably find 50 people around the world in any profession who were killed by reasons other than natural causes in the past 4 years.
     
  16. Jan 28, 2005 #15
    around the world? I was under the impression they were all american
     
  17. Jan 28, 2005 #16

    cronxeh

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    ok fine Moonbear and matthy. I guess the world isnt as ideal as I saw it.. :cry:

    But if 40+ experts in germ warfare mysteriously die after 9/11, and there is a 'war on terror' going on - maybe, just maybe, its a cause for concern :confused:
     
  18. Jan 28, 2005 #17
    Here is a sort of list.

    http://www.stevequayle.com/dead_scientists/dead.scientists.chron.html [Broken]

    A while ago I saw a Nova regarding an African Tribe near Madagascar, that claimed to be of Jewish descent. Their ancient tales were taken down and their migration was traced to the middle east, and it was established that they carried what is called The Coheneen (sp?) Gene, which is the only male chromosomal genetic inheritance line, the rest of us are traced from the Eve material in Africa. This is PBS, so I assume that is above board. After seeing this I had read from a reputable source that there were no Jewish women, in the beginning of this line of descent, the wives were all from other groups. (Is this the origin of the Adamic myth?)

    Supposedly there was some weapons research going on in reference to this gene, and everyone involved perished. I read this, on the web, probably some wild conspiracy in regards to the great dying of geneticists and microbiologists.

    http://www.barzan.com/kevin_brook.htm

    This link is to an article that discusses and then waters down the existence of the Cohen Haplotype.

    The geneticist Michael Hammer, has a lot of writings about this whole genetic investigation.
     
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  19. Jan 28, 2005 #18

    russ_watters

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    You may have misread - this one guy died soon after 9/11. The other 40 mentioned died over a 4 year period. There's nothing at all strange about that.
    Yeah, it would be -- if it were true. That isn't what was claimed.

    And that list: all bio-weapons experts? No. All biologists? Still no. They threw in a few extras for good measure:
    Most are biologists, but it also includes physicists, chemists, and environmental scientists, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jan 28, 2005
  20. Jan 28, 2005 #19
    Well crap.

    And here I thought I was going to live forever?
     
  21. Jan 28, 2005 #20

    Moonbear

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    Nope, there were Brits and Iraqis in the list (I didn't look back at it recently now to recall if there were other countries included).

    And as Russ pointed out, they threw in some chemists and plain ol' ordinary microbiologists (not bioweapons experts), etc. It gets even easier to find 50 people killed in a profession if you broaden the definition to any scientist working with cells, chemicals, environmental agents, genetic engineering, etc.
     
  22. Oct 24, 2005 #21
    Assassinating scientists isn't new. The Mossad killed Dr. Gerald Bull a month before the first Gulf War, because of his work on accurizing Iraqi SCUD missiles as well as building the Babylon Gun.

    The death of Dr. Mallove is also curious, as the publicly unmentioned 'things' taken from his home included a number of experimental apparatus, which should have been of no value to a low life mugger.

    Keep in mind that the intel services two favorite cover stories for assassinations are heart attacks and suicides. Ricin poison, for example, is the poison of choice for KGB/FSB simulated heart attacks and has been used frequently by them for deniable assasinations. Given how much spycraft practices are adopted by both sides, its not surprising if CIA or private interest operatives used the same techniques. Suicide via drugs and/or firearms is also a popular assassins practice. The drunk drowning in the tub is a favorite, as is the drugged and "falling asleep" with a lit cigarette. A good fire will burn up evidence of drugging..

    The most dangerous scientists to the establishment are those who are old and wise to the ways of power structures, and who get principled about exposing the nasty truth.

    If you are ever in such a situation, a code word to look out for is some bureaucrat trying to calm you down with the claim that "there is no hidden agenda". That is when you know you need to be looking over your shoulder and covering your backside the most.

    Does this sound paranoid? I've been there, multiple times. You know what they say 'if they really are out to get you'. If such doesn't sound like what you want to live through, then don't rock the boat or threaten the PTB.
     
  23. Oct 25, 2005 #22

    Chronos

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    Publicly subscribing to a conspiracy theory would seem to be the best defense against succumbing to one.
     
  24. Oct 25, 2005 #23
    Come on, people!

    http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/deadbiologists [Broken]

    Isn't life so much easier when one believes that there's no such thing as conspiracy? Doesn't society seem so much more wonderful when one plays ignorant to the probabilities? Isn't it odd that top corporations lie, cheat, and steal - but governments don't? Oh no, super-powerful nations don't have any "secret plans" - us citizens, we're too smart to fall for tricks and rhetoric. No, if any group of people die, it MUST be inocuously explained away so that further open-mindedness can be avoided. Everyone knows that open-mindedness is ineffective when compared to the close-mindedness of mainstream society.

    John Milton said, "Free will - it is a *****." Ah, but only if you can't control it.
    In the context of organized religion, the Devil (Milton) "can't" preclude F.W...

    Free will, in today's "first-world" societies, is but a philisophical construct. If something is "meant" to happen because certain powerful people think it's necessary for "national security", it WILL happen. Why pretend that organizations like Bilderberg, CFR, Trilateral Commission, etc. really don't have the ability to manifest reality? It is said that the best way to predict the future is to create it. Thus, the "masses" think it impossible in this day and age to perpetrate grand conspiracies - just as they're supposed to think.

    If explaining away dozens of microbiologist deaths fluffs your bed, then don't let me stop you from your "peaceful" sleep. Being awake is a much more difficult path to walk than simply getting out of bed each the morning. What we don't know, can't exist... right? It's painfully obvious that something big is "in the works", and dead microbiologists are but one piece of the puzzle.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 2, 2017
  25. Oct 25, 2005 #24

    matthyaouw

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    Two of them crashed their own planes, one died of a stroke, one a heart attack, three more in another plane crash, and yet the website owner feels this classes as murder and conspiricy?

    There is no evidence given that people are being targeted specifically because of their profession.

    The website states that
    "But for so many to die in such a short while exceeds all reasonable bounds of statistics"
    Ok, where are these statistics? Because I'd quite like to look over them.
     
  26. Nov 1, 2005 #25
    It's not scientists, it's democrats and liberals. The republican right has been killing them for decades. I had a couple of pro-choice letters printed in the local paper and I started getting threatening phone calls. I doubt if right leaning opinions get threatening phone calls from liberals. I think they killed JFK jr. because he was so popular and could have been president easily. Also other high profile democrats have died in plane crashes since then. The thing with scientists is they are most likely left leaning too so they are targets and we know how intolerant of science the right is when the science doesn't agree with them.
     
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