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News Arizona immigration law

  1. Apr 30, 2010 #1
    What's up with all this immigration law? It seems there is a raging battle across the country between people who stick with the law (those who are labeled as racists), and those that favor breaking the law and demand return to the former status quo.
     
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  3. Apr 30, 2010 #2

    Kerrie

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    Re: Arizona

    As I understand it, it gives police the authority to request proof of lawful residency in this country. Illegals of course don't have this, so there is a higher probability of them getting deported to their home country.

    Eleven years ago, I lived in Phoenix, so I am paying close attention to this new law. Many are concerned that it will prompt racial profiling, there are many many legal Hispanic citizens in Phoenix, and a police officer can question American citizens based on their "appearance". They don't have to commit a crime in order to be questioned (please correct me if I am wrong, this is how I am understanding it).

    Immigration reform is definitely something that needs to be addressed. We also have to remember however that there are many established generations of Americans, and we cannot forget that our country was founded upon others migrating and starting a new life here for themselves and their families.
     
  4. Apr 30, 2010 #3

    mheslep

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  5. Apr 30, 2010 #4

    mheslep

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    Re: Arizona

    As I understand it, the Az police will only have that authority (requesting proof) when detaining someone for a reason valid under existing law, i.e. traffic stop, drunk and disorderly, etc. Thus they do not have the authority to randomly ask people for ID under this law, nor would I expect that to pass constitutional barriers.
     
  6. Apr 30, 2010 #5

    russ_watters

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    Re: Arizona

    I know the law doesn't allow this, but hypothetically, why would it be a bad thing to randomly ask people for proof of citizenship/resident alien status? And why would that not pass constitutional muster? As I understand it, resident aliens are already required by law to carry their ID with them and show it upon request.
     
  7. Apr 30, 2010 #6

    mheslep

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    Re: Arizona

    I believe for the same reason the police can't randomly enter homes looking for criminal activity. They'd certainly find a lot of it they did, but the 4th amendment does not allow them.

     
  8. Apr 30, 2010 #7

    russ_watters

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    Re: Arizona

    We're not talking about private property, we're talking about cars on the street. Right now, police can put up sobriety checkpoints and test drivers for sobriety without probable cause. Why could a citizenship status check not be a component of this?
     
  9. Apr 30, 2010 #8

    mheslep

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    Re: Arizona

    I agree it probably could be, since as above this law allows a check during a stop/detainment for any of the existing reasons.

    However I don't believe vehicle stops are very relevant to illegal immigration, as the driver already needs a driver's license which means he/she already produced sufficient paper work to get it. No new law is required to catch an illegal driving with no license. Illegals are, I expect, going to be out on foot, or riding the bus.
     
  10. Apr 30, 2010 #9
    Re: Arizona

    If folks are concerned about racial profiling, maybe they should do something about the rampant racism in Mexico that drives darker-skinned Mexicans across the border. It's not a coincidence - not all Mexicans are brown-skinned.
     
  11. Apr 30, 2010 #10

    Kerrie

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    Re: Arizona

    I don't think citizen checks *in general* are as lethal to the general population as drunken drivers, hence the reason for sobriety checkpoints. Typically, an illegal wants to stay here and will abide by the law as carefully as they can to ensure they will remain in America, after all, who wouldn't want to leave? o:)

    While I don't agree personally with the actual law, I do hope Arizona's radicalism will instigate immigration reform. Just think, if a large chunk of illegals were paying taxes on the money they are making, that would be a huge influx of revenue for the USA.
     
  12. Apr 30, 2010 #11

    Evo

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    I've always argued in favor of illegal aliens that work hard. but I've changed my mind.

    Their country needs to step up and take care of their own people. The fact that the President of Mexico is against US laws to deter illegal immigration speaks loads. Mexico doesn't want to take care of their own people and they encourage these unwanted to go to the US so they can become our problem.

    No.

    This is wrong on so many levels.

    Edit: I also agree with Kerrie, there would have to be taxation. Unfortunately illegal aliens are paid "under the table" no taxes.
     
  13. Apr 30, 2010 #12

    russ_watters

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    Re: Arizona

    The only relevance is it is a good pretext for an identity check. You could also attach it to other situations where an identity check is needed, such as requiring anyone entering a bar to show a US photo ID. Frankly, I think identity checks should be required in a host of other situations, as it encourages people to behave more responsibly. For example, if you attach a name to a seat on a ticket to a sporting event, it makes it easier to hand out drunk and disorderly citations.
    Generally, it isn't the driver who'se the issue, it is the passengers, but I see no reason why the passengers couldn't be checked too. Among other issues, one of the reasons to suspect illegals is overpacked cars, and an overpacked car seems on its own to be a reason to give everyone in the car a ticket due to the safety issue.
     
  14. Apr 30, 2010 #13
    Re: Arizona

    I don't believe a drivers license is proof of citizenship.
     
  15. Apr 30, 2010 #14

    russ_watters

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    Re: Arizona

    What does lethality have to do with anything? Should we stop going after shoplifters and tax evaders because they aren't killing anyone?
    Agreed, though I'm not sure I see what the relevance of that statement is either.
    That's a common refrain, but it is just plain wrong. Illegals are a completely pure drain on the tax system because even if they get converted to "legal" and registered, the vast majority will not pay federal income taxes. Why? Because new immigrants don't make much money and currently if you are in about the bottom half of incomes in the US, you don't pay federal income taxes.
     
    Last edited: Apr 30, 2010
  16. Apr 30, 2010 #15

    russ_watters

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    Re: Arizona

    Good point: it isn't. 11 states currently issue drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants:

    http://www.theamericanresistance.com/issues/drivers_licenses.html

    And Obama, in the past anyway, was in favor of this:
    http://articles.sfgate.com/2008-01-...enses-illegal-immigrants-immigration-overhaul
     
  17. Apr 30, 2010 #16

    mgb_phys

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    Re: Arizona

    I think because it would lead to racial profiling.
    Obviously anyone who looked meso-american/hispanic is likely to be native to the area, and anyone african american is probably legal.
    But what about all the white guys? Would they have to prove that they were born there? And their parents and grandparents were also born there.
    It would be terribly unfair if the police were rounding up everyone white who speaks english.
     
  18. Apr 30, 2010 #17

    Evo

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    Re: Arizona

    That doesn't address the question that was asked
    If they are legal, no problem.

    As was stated, they have random drunk driving stops that pull over all people on the road regardless of how they are driving.
     
  19. Apr 30, 2010 #18

    mgb_phys

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    Randomly asking people for citizenship would be OK.
    Stopping only people in say turbans and asking them and only them for id might be less of a good idea.

    It's the same with dui checks, stopping everyone is reasonable.
    Random stops tend to target people in old battered cars, whether this is subconscious bias by the police (poor people are criminals), or fishing (poor people more likely to have outstanding warrants) or tactical (BMW driver likely to have a lawyer that will argue in court).
     
  20. Apr 30, 2010 #19

    Evo

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    When they have random DUI checks, all cars are pulled over. I was driving a new BMW. My friend was driving a Porsche. Everyone is pulled over.
     
  21. Apr 30, 2010 #20
    Mel Gibson got DUI couple of years ago in LA, and he was driving a Lexus. Basically, cops are trained to spot a DUI vehicle on the road.
     
  22. Apr 30, 2010 #21

    mgb_phys

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    That's because those were ruled legal, they aren't really random - except in a statistical sampling sense.

    The rule used to be that you could pull anyone over with 'reasonable cause' - the reasonable cause was generally the reasonable chance of you also finding a joint in the car.
     
  23. Apr 30, 2010 #22

    mgb_phys

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    In LA though, they probably thought we was a homeless guy!
     
  24. Apr 30, 2010 #23

    chemisttree

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    http://www.madd.org/chapter/4800_9522_7612" [Broken] This is due mainly to the efforts of rights activists. In San Antonio this practice was made an example of as unfair racial profiling because the police only chose certain locations (where alcohol related accidents were prevalent) that resulted in an unequal rate of arrest for minorities. I'm certain the same thing will happen in AZ but I don't know if the AZ Supreme Court is as 'compliant' as it seems to be in TX.

    Welcome to http://www.mayorno.com/WhoIsMecha.html" [Broken], y'all.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  25. Apr 30, 2010 #24
    If a significant segment of a population statistically commit more crimes, why wouldn't it be reasonable to proportionally adjust random sampling of those people?
     
  26. Apr 30, 2010 #25

    Evo

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    You don't understand. The police here close entire roads and pull *ALL* cars over. No exceptions. They block and question ALL CARS ON THE ROAD.
     
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