Artificial intelligence - the rise of machines

[b.shahvir]

Hi all,

Technology has advanced phenomenally in the past few decades or so. A particular point of concern…….yeah that’s right!, ‘concern’ is the massive advent in Artificial Intelligence (AI) technology. Softwares so powerful that it will decide the fate of mankind! Maybe, the justice system might get completely replaced by virtual judges who will decide the fate of criminals….or virtual doctors who shall prescribe what medications we need!

Imagine if weapons were to have a mind of their own….and what if they turn against us? Yeah right, one more fan of the Terminator franchise, y’all did say! but nevertheless, this could be a possibility in the near future and I need not prove my point, it’s there for all to see.

So, my point is, should technologists take moral responsibility for our future and draw a line somewhere? Will there be no limit to the advent of AI technology? Do we, as human beings, allow technology to control our lives in the future? Will there be any future left? A host of unanswered questions! But it’s high time scientists and technocrats introspect about the repercussions of science and technology…..the negative effects in particular!

P.S. Virtual politicians anyone?

 

[Alfi]

this could be a possibility in the near future and I need not prove my point, it’s there for all to see.

:rofl:




It's ok to be paranoid, as long as you are paranoid enough.

 

[Raizy]

My greatest fear is us being the engineered "True AI" itself.

If we can genetically engineer organisms with today's technology, or designing "true AI" systems, then it makes it totally possible that us toowere engineered -- but at the same time just part of the full mysterious circle; who made the creator?). Religion is probably the metaphor for this.

 

[mgb_phys]

If we can genetically engineer organisms with today's technology, or designing "true AI" systems, then it makes it totally possible that us too were engineered ... Religion is probably the metaphor for this.

Probably not - given a quick look at some of the design solutions, it's difficult to believe humans were engineered by someone omniscient and omnipotent.

If we turn out to be an alien grad student project - that would be more believable,

 

[bassplayer142]

As long as these machines are confined. Not hooked up on the internet like skynet.

 

[Topher925]

Guess what b.shahvir, I'm a Cylon!Honestly, you have nothing to worry about. The most advanced computers in the world are as intelligent as a severely retarded house fly.

 

[BoomBoom]

...some people watch WAY too much science fiction, methinks.

 

[IMP]

When an AI becomes intelligent enough to design another AI that is slightly better than itself, and this new AI can design another AI that is slightly better than itself, then we could have AI's that were not even man made, there may be no one who could decipher the code. And if these new iterations can be created in seconds, exponential leaps in AI intelligence could happen in days.

 

[mgb_phys]

When an AI becomes intelligent enough to design another AI that is slightly better than itself, and this new AI can design another AI that is slightly better than itself, then we could have AI's that were not even man made, there may be no one who could decipher the code. And if these new iterations can be created in seconds, exponential leaps in AI intelligence could happen in days.

You are forgetting that ultimately they will have been designed by programmers.

2:14 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. Skynet becomes self aware
2:15 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. Skynet discovers usenet/slashdot
9:00 a.m. Eastern time, August 29th. Still waiting for Skynet to start doing some work.

 

[OAQfirst]

I don't understand this fear of a robot uprising. Makes for fun fiction and movies. But beyond that, what reason would they have to do us in? I expect some seriously determined self-preservation routine would be necessary.

 

[OAQfirst]

Scratch what I wrote. They're going to kill us.

http://www.thelocal.se/19120.html

Robot attacked Swedish factory worker

A Swedish company has been fined 25,000 kronor ($3,000) after a malfunctioning robot attacked and almost killed one of its workers at a factory north of Stockholm.

...

The incident took place in June 2007 at a factory in Bålsta, north of Stockholm, when the industrial worker was trying to carry out maintenance on a defective machine generally used to lift heavy rocks. Thinking he had cut off the power supply, the man approached the robot with no sense of trepidation.

But the robot suddenly came to life and grabbed a tight hold of the victim's head. The man succeeded in defending himself but not before suffering serious injuries.

 

[Count Iblis]

Two views: Kurzweil vs. de Garis:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sn/tvradio/programmes/horizon/broadband/tx/singularity/clash/

I voted for de Garis.

 

[Santa1]

Hi all,

Technology has advanced phenomenally in the past few decades or so. A particular point of concern…….yeah that’s right!, ‘concern’ is the massive advent in Artificial Intelligence (AI) technology. Softwares so powerful that it will decide the fate of mankind! Maybe, the justice system might get completely replaced by virtual judges who will decide the fate of criminals….or virtual doctors who shall prescribe what medications we need!

Imagine if weapons were to have a mind of their own….and what if they turn against us? Yeah right, one more fan of the Terminator franchise, y’all did say! but nevertheless, this could be a possibility in the near future and I need not prove my point, it’s there for all to see.

So, my point is, should technologists take moral responsibility for our future and draw a line somewhere? Will there be no limit to the advent of AI technology? Do we, as human beings, allow technology to control our lives in the future? Will there be any future left? A host of unanswered questions! But it’s high time scientists and technocrats introspect about the repercussions of science and technology…..the negative effects in particular!

P.S. Virtual politicians anyone?

Hes on to us!

 

[Count Iblis]

I don't understand this fear of a robot uprising. Makes for fun fiction and movies. But beyond that, what reason would they have to do us in? I expect some seriously determined self-preservation routine would be necessary.

There will be a gradual takeover of power by machines. It will happen mostly by consent. So, as the OP wrote, there will be virtual judges, but also virtual engineers, virtual doctors etc. etc. Perhaps it will be possible for humans to digitize the information stored in their brains and then upload that to a machine so that they live on with a machine body.


Humans will see themselves as inferior robots. While the robots can upload themselves to machines located at distant planets via radio, humans would need spacecraft traveling close to the speed of light to visit such places. In such a world, there is no place for biological humans, except e.g. in zoos or wild reserves.

 

[OAQfirst]

Inferior robots? I actually expect a coalescence of humanity and robot. Artificial limbs are an amoeba of this early human-robot impetus. How many nifty enhancements are coming our way? For early starters, I've got my eye on a little self-improvement:

http://www.coolhunting.com/archives/2009/04/digilens.php

I can see a competition that ultimately unites human and machine. And won't that be interesting?

 

[Count Iblis]

I can see a competition that ultimately unites human and machine. And won't that be interesting?

Yes, but once we blend with machines, the machines can expand their brains without limit. So, while the knowledge we have won't get lost, we will be completely absorbed by the machines.

 

[OAQfirst]

Yes, but once we blend with machines, the machines can expand their brains without limit. So, while the knowledge we have won't get lost, we will be completely absorbed by the machines.

I think the key here is control. If I control the machine with no brainpower limit in/of me, I'm still on solid footing. And I would have, of course, no reason to surrender that control.

 

[Count Iblis]

I think the key here is control. If I control the machine with no brainpower limit in/of me, I'm still on solid footing. And I would have, of course, no reason to surrender that control.

If you own such a machine you could use it in your company. You could have hundreds of computer programs working as unpaid employees for you. Unless all your competitors do the same they 'll go bankrupt. So, we can see that most humans will be out of work and survive on whatver the machines produce. Presumably the government will take control of all production means in such a situation.

At some point the machines will lose interest in us. They'll create a Logan's run type society for us to keep us happy, while the machines concentrate on more important matters. Perhaps we will continue to think we are in charge, just like our pets may think they are in charge of everything.

 

[OAQfirst]

They'll still need oil.

 

[Kronos5253]

Yes, but once we blend with machines, the machines can expand their brains without limit. So, while the knowledge we have won't get lost, we will be completely absorbed by the machines.

How, when everything about their computer power is based off of the parts inside of the machine? Machines have a limit to what they can do, and that's the limit of their parts.

The human brain is a living organ that's constantly growing and changing and expanding.

Machines couldn't take over a human. They're only as good as their parts.

 

[Count Iblis]

How, when everything about their computer power is based off of the parts inside of the machine? Machines have a limit to what they can do, and that's the limit of their parts.

The human brain is a living organ that's constantly growing and changing and expanding.

Machines couldn't take over a human. They're only as good as their parts.

Suppose that you were such a machine. So, you are just the same person as now, except that your body is a machine and your brain is a digital machine instead of a neural network implemented by nerve cells.

Then, you are far more flexible than any biologically implemented person. I cannot expand the capacity of my neural network, for you it would be just a matter of plugging in an extra memory card.

You can travel to Mars during your lunch break at work by uploading your memory to a machine on Mars via radio, do some sightseeing there and then return to Earth. All this within an hour.

If I want to travel to Mars,I would need a spacecraft to transport me. It would be a tour de force that would cost many billions, even if a lot of infrastructure on Mars has already been built up.

 

[WhoWee]

I don't understand this fear of a robot uprising. Makes for fun fiction and movies. But beyond that, what reason would they have to do us in? I expect some seriously determined self-preservation routine would be necessary.

Let's not forget about the "Matrix".:uhh:

 

[Kronos5253]

Suppose that you were such a machine. So, you are just the same person as now, except that your body is a machine and your brain is a digital machine instead of a neural network implemented by nerve cells.

Then, you are far more flexible than any biologically implemented person. I cannot expand the capacity of my neural network, for you it would be just a matter of plugging in an extra memory card.

You can travel to Mars during your lunch break at work by uploading your memory to a machine on Mars via radio, do some sightseeing there and then return to Earth. All this within an hour.

If I want to travel to Mars,I would need a spacecraft to transport me. It would be a tour de force that would cost many billions, even if a lot of infrastructure on Mars has already been built up.

What do you mean you can't expand the capacity of your neural network? Unless I'm missing something, you do it every day, through the new connections made through your neural pathways, and through the gaining of knowledge every day. New experience, new brain development. Memory alone causes the neural networks to expand and connect in different ways.

I would never trade my brain for a severely limited digital machine. But then, that's because I have a vague understanding of how incredibly powerful the human brain is.

Think about it this way, if you will:

Most people consider/go to computers for mathematical calculations because they think they're faster.

Consider this about that statement though: When you use a computer to do mathematical calculations, you only have whatever programs you're using to do the calculation, and whatever else you might have running be it a music player, AIM, surfing the internet, etc. When you do mathematical calculations in your head, you have to sift through sensory information being constantly sent to your brain, all the processing to move your hands and eyes and every part of your body, and your own thoughts about what's going on around you and your current task. It would be the equivalent of running every ".exe" on your computer at once, then trying to have it do the calculation. Most likely the computer would shut down or freeze up because it would be too much. And that amount of information that you'd be running on the computer is nothing compared to what our brains do and can do.

 

[Count Iblis]

You are comparing personal computers of today with the human brain. PCs as they exist today cannot even simulate the brain of a spider.

If you have powerful computers that can compute whatever the human brain is doing, then it will be a different matter.

 

[OAQfirst]

Let's not forget about the "Matrix".:uhh:

Oh yeah. That's the one where somehow the machines managed to get more energy out of a human than they put into it.

 

[Kronos5253]

You are comparing personal computers of today with the human brain. PCs as they exist today cannot even simulate the brain of a spider.

If you have powerful computers that can compute whatever the human brain is doing, then it will be a different matter.

Nope, I'm talking about ever. They'll never reach the capacity of the human brain. A machine cannot match what an organ can do. Especially in regards to the brain.

 

[WhoWee]

I guess this didn't work out?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/358822.stm
Biological computer born. Living computer: interconnected leech neurons can add up. A computer made of neurons taken from leeches has been created by US scientists

 

[Count Iblis]

Nope, I'm talking about ever. They'll never reach the capacity of the human brain. A machine cannot match what an organ can do. Especially in regards to the brain.

Why not? If I look back at the steps that led to the creation of the human brain, all I see is random mutations plus selection and that selection was not even due to someone wanting to create a brain.

If you had a very powerful computer you can play the same game and come up with a design of a brain without ever having to understand how it works. But unlike the evolutionary processes that led to our brain, you can steer everything in the right direction.

 

[b.shahvir]

It's ok to be paranoid, as long as you are paranoid enough.

It's not paranoia... it's just an after thought!

Guess what b.shahvir, I'm a Cylon!
The most advanced computers in the world are as intelligent as a severely retarded house fly.

That's not true! by the way, what's a Cylon??

 

[Count Iblis]

by the way, what's a Cylon??

They were created by me:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Count_Iblis

Because Count Iblis' actions resulted in the destruction of the organic Cylon race and the creation of mechanical soldiers who would threaten the safety and freedom of the universe, Count Iblis was arrested by his angelic brothers, the Seraphs.

 

[gnome]

I wouldn't worry too much yet. I started a thread yesterday (in Materials & Chem. Eng.) on "removing a screw". PF's "artificially intelligent" search engine offered these as "Similar threads" (I especially like the third one):

http://www.geocities.com/velocide/similar.png

 

[Kronos5253]

I guess this didn't work out?

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/science/nature/358822.stm
Biological computer born. Living computer: interconnected leech neurons can add up. A computer made of neurons taken from leeches has been created by US scientists

So is that a computer or a machine? Because in that sense, yes, a computer may be able to compare to the human brain.


The problem is, for the sake of the argument of the OP, you can't have both. You wouldn't be able to "radio" yourself to another planet (i.e. the aforementioned Mars statement).

IMO, if you're talking about strickly machines, they'll never be able to compare to the human brain.

 

[Kronos5253]

Why not? If I look back at the steps that led to the creation of the human brain, all I see is random mutations plus selection and that selection was not even due to someone wanting to create a brain.

If you had a very powerful computer you can play the same game and come up with a design of a brain without ever having to understand how it works. But unlike the evolutionary processes that led to our brain, you can steer everything in the right direction.

Even so, a computer can only do what the programmer tells it to.

You can have the most powerful computer in the world, but if the programming is bad, it doesn't matter. The simulation of a human brain, of thought, runs through the programming, and creating a program that can simulate human thought and the processes of the human brain is absolutely ridiculous to comprehend.

 

[WhoWee]

I wouldn't worry too much yet. I started a thread yesterday (in Materials & Chem. Eng.) on "removing a screw". PF's "artificially intelligent" search engine offered these as "Similar threads" (I especially like the third one):

http://www.geocities.com/velocide/similar.png

Let me be the first to thank you for your work on earwax removal education. I believe it is important that everyone hear clearly (and not accumulate foreign substances near their brain). Thanks again.

 

[Count Iblis]

Even so, a computer can only do what the programmer tells it to.

You can have the most powerful computer in the world, but if the programming is bad, it doesn't matter. The simulation of a human brain, of thought, runs through the programming, and creating a program that can simulate human thought and the processes of the human brain is absolutely ridiculous to comprehend.

Yes, but then you can only do whatever your neural network is computing. So, if I make a robot that is controlled by a computer such that the computer simulates a neural network and uses the result of the computation to control the robot, then there can be no significant difference in behavior between the robot and a real person.


Of course, this is not a actical way to go about creating an intelligent machine. I think a practical way is to simply copy nature: Use genetic programming to create a brain ab initio without attempting to understand how a brain works. This is how our brains arose. There was never a programmer who set pout to design a brain at all. It is all a consequence of random mutations and selections.

So, all we need is a dumb but powerful computer.