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Atheism and Agnosticism

  1. Dec 18, 2004 #1
    If this topic needs to be deleted I apologize for making it. I wasn't sure from the thread what the rules were exactly. The topic is meant for a calm debate on what makes up atheism and agnosticism and what has more logic centered around it. I'm also curious about theories on origin of Christianity. Again, this isn't meant to start arguements and can be deleted or locked if necessary.

    **

    I do not believe in God, I believe in the possibility of God.
    I do not believe that God doesn't exist, I believe it is possible he doesn't exist.

    Does this make me Atheist, Agnostic, or both? Atheist Agnosticism is something else entirely though.

    Also, are there any thoughts on what is more logical: atheism or agnosticism? Is it truly logical to discard the possibility of some sort of supreme being? What are the theories towards how Christianity and the history of religion started?
     
  2. jcsd
  3. Dec 18, 2004 #2
    To put it simply, if God is made up of particles/atoms, he is a slave of the system, and therefore he is only the highest possible being in the system/universe.
    If he is not made up of atoms, but is entirely seperate and outside the universe, well, then we get to something completely different.

    Who can possibly know what is outside our universe?
    Both ideas of "the universe is too perfect to have a creator", and "well I say it's so perfect it HAS to have a creator or intellect of some sort" both apply.
    So therefore, I believe being an agnostic is most logical.

    However, I have discarded a biblical God, any type of God that people have created, I say we simply know NOTHING about any current creator or omiscient being in our universe. Nothing at all.
     
  4. Dec 18, 2004 #3
    Do you believe we know nothing because we can prove nothing, and we cannot confirm any ideological beliefs of monotheistic religions; or, do you believe that monotheist religions were simply created in all senses?

    I discard a biblical God because of the shaky information I have been presented with and because there is no proof at this time that I deem correct. I don't necessarily deny the possibility that some historical religious happenings did occur; however, they were likely improperly documented over time.
     
  5. Dec 18, 2004 #4

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  6. Dec 18, 2004 #5

    Kerrie

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    Dooga, your thread will remain open so long as it stays philosophical, which I can see is your intent. Let's not get into the Christianity subject however.

    I would say you are more agnostic with the beliefs you stated. Atheists tend to deny any sort of creative intelligence. Agnostics just don't acknowledge but would be open to change (from what I understand).
     
  7. Dec 18, 2004 #6
    If this topic needs to be deleted I apologize for making it. I wasn't sure from the thread what the rules were exactly.
    -------------------------------------------------------------
    the rules are clear my child
    this world bans philosophy
    i've been banned on several forums

    Philosopher Philocrazy
    PS when philosophy makes money they turn it into a religion!!!!!
     
  8. Dec 19, 2004 #7

    Kerrie

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    interesting quotation there, although untrue
    are you giving me warning that i may ban you too?
    yes, the rules are quite clear,
    so please adhere to them, and i assure you won't be a fool!
     
  9. Dec 19, 2004 #8
    warning?
    not at all sir
    i was merely accounting some hard facts of life in civilisation: "WESTERN DEMOCRACY"
    western democracy is giving Philosophy Warnings!!!!
    you just gave me one

    Is this forum free and Democratic?
    i rest my case
     
  10. Dec 19, 2004 #9

    Kerrie

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    interesting you would address me as a "sir"
    ignorant you are that i am a "her"
    keep up the blathering,
    and a ban of your membership i do assure.
     
  11. Dec 19, 2004 #10

    loseyourname

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    You guys are cracking me up. You should date.
     
  12. Dec 19, 2004 #11

    Kerrie

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    for some reason, people like this give me a reason to feel poetic.
    i can't date though, i have a nice diamond on my left ring finger now :biggrin:
     
  13. Dec 19, 2004 #12
    There's are certain areas of our brains that make us feel spiritualy aware, these areas are a natural consequence of religion and evolution, religion makes our communities safer and better places to be for everyone - yeah I know not anymore, 3rd biggest killer in Europe religion and it's wars - therefore thoughts of religion will eventually lead to a positive imprinting on the brain. Does god exist? or did we make him up, chicken and egg, it's all pretty meaningless, one thing I will say though is that agnosticism is waiting for proof before making a decision, atheism is an absolute belief that god doesnt exist; in that case what's the difference between a christian and an atheist?
     
  14. Dec 19, 2004 #13

    Doc Al

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    Nope. An atheist simply lacks belief in god(s); nothing "absolute" about it.
     
  15. Dec 19, 2004 #14
    it is not all pretty meaningless if u believe that god is present in our everyday lives. :P

    Dooga you are agnostic. agnostic is like ya he might exist, but like dude he might not?!?... athesist are like the is NO god, wut so ever!!! u are "if"-yish so u are agnostic.

    now for your other questions. Christainity/Judism(sry4spelling) differed from the main the beliefs of the Romans and Greeks. they thought that u went to the underworld now matter wut and that unless u were some BIG hero like Odysseus then u went to some flat area, the plains of something.The plains were pretty boring too, nothing to do for all eternity, unless u got pluto pissed off : ). Christianity/Judism says that u went to Heaven if u were a good little boy/girl, hence the term Ethical-Monotheism. i dont know about u but if im picking a religion and one says that im going to be doing nothing for the rest of my unatrual life and one says that ill be happy after im dead...hmmm...tough decision!

    now my thoughts on athesism vs "agnosticism"( can i even put the ism at the end of this word??? nvr seen it spelled that way... o well)
    i think that saying that humans know everything and that there is NO possiblity of anything odd being out there that doesn't really fit our sense of reality, is arrogant. if u believe that there are wierd things that ppl don't experience in everyday life, in physics, such as TINY peices of matter, then who says that there can't be other wierd things too? No, im not saying that God is the size of a electron, or that he is even made of matter, but admiting that u are ignorant and then saying ur omniscient is just being stupid.
     
  16. Dec 19, 2004 #15
    this is a seperate question from my other post so im not editing.

    then wut do atheist believe in besides that there is no god(s)?
     
  17. Dec 19, 2004 #16

    russ_watters

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    That's agnostic. Athiesm is a positive belief that god doesn't exist.
     
  18. Dec 19, 2004 #17
    Is that the accepted definition now? Dictionary.com states:

    Atheism: Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods.
    Disbelief: Refusal or reluctance to believe.
    Belief: Something believed or accepted as true.

    Under those definitions you could say that Agnosticism is a type of Atheism.
     
  19. Dec 19, 2004 #18

    russ_watters

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    Well, I guess its a little unclear what "disbelief" means (it may go either way), but "denial of" is a pretty clear positive belief. And since we have another word for describing the lack of belief (agnostic), it makes sense to differentiate.
     
  20. Dec 19, 2004 #19
    People have, in times past, been labeled ‘atheist’ for having belief in certain god(s) instead of others and I think in this day and age such thinking can be seen absurd. My preference involves examination of the words;

    Theism: belief in a deity
    A-Theism: without theism.

    Atheism quite properly describes lack of belief and this in an of itself outlines no other view which may be held by the subject. When I describe myself as atheist there is nothing beyond what is outlined above I am attempting to convey. To ascribe anything beyond this is to force words and preconceptions into an unwilling mouth.
     
  21. Dec 19, 2004 #20

    russ_watters

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    However, the dictonary implies there is a difference between athiesm and agnosticism (sp?):
    If an athiest is an agnostic, then what do you call someone who believes that there is no god?
     
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