GR: Attractors & Liouville's Theorem

In summary, the conversation discusses the concept of attractors in classical Hamiltonian mechanics and whether they also exist in GR, which has a Hamiltonian formulation. It is mentioned that every Hamiltonian system, including GR, follows Liouville's theorem about the preservation of phase space volume. However, in field theories like GR, the phase space is infinite dimensional and the 3D volume of matter does not necessarily correspond to the phase space volume. The conversation also touches on the Raychaudhuri equation, which can describe both shrinking and expanding solutions in GR. Finally, there is some uncertainty about whether the Liouville theorem fully applies in field theories due to the infinite number of degrees of freedom.
  • #1
atyy
Science Advisor
15,168
3,374
TL;DR Summary
Does GR have attractors?
In classical Hamiltonian mechanics, because of Liouville's theorem about the volume of phase space being preserved by time evolution, there are no attractors.

Naively, I think of the Raychaudhuri equation in GR as showing a shrinking volume. However, I guess Raychaudhri's equation does not deal with the phase space of GR.

Does GR have attractors?
Is there something like the Liouville theorem in GR, especially since GR has a Hamiltonian formulation?
 
  • Like
Likes Demystifier and vanhees71
Physics news on Phys.org
  • #2
Just a guess, but given that very little is known about the global properties of solutions to the initial value problem, I would say that it is a very hard question.
 
  • Like
Likes atyy and vanhees71
  • #3
atyy said:
Is there something like the Liouville theorem in GR, especially since GR has a Hamiltonian formulation?
Every Hamiltonian system obeys the Liouville theorem. GR is not an exception. Note, however, that the phase space in field theories is infinite dimensional. In particular, the 3-dimensional volume of a lump of matter (which may shrink due to gravitational collapse) has nothing to do with the infinite-dimensional phase-space volume.
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #4
atyy said:
Naively, I think of the Raychaudhuri equation in GR as showing a shrinking volume.
GR is invariant under the time reversal. Raychaudhuri equation can describe also the expansion. In the black-hole context, such an expanding solution is called a white hole. Such solutions are usually discarded because they require unrealistic initial conditions, or equivalently, because for such solutions entropy decreases with time.
 
  • Like
Likes vanhees71
  • #5
Demystifier said:
Every Hamiltonian system obeys the Liouville theorem. GR is not an exception. Note, however, that the phase space in field theories is infinite dimensional. In particular, the 3-dimensional volume of a lump of matter (which may shrink due to gravitational collapse) has nothing to do with the infinite-dimensional phase-space volume.
Are you sure the theorem holds in field theories?
 
  • #6
martinbn said:
Are you sure the theorem holds in field theories?
Formally yes, but I guess it's not fully rigorous due to the infinite number of degrees of freedom.
 

1. What are attractors in the context of GR?

Attractors in GR refer to regions in space-time where the gravitational force is strong enough to pull objects towards it. These objects can be anything from particles to entire galaxies.

2. How are attractors related to Liouville's Theorem?

Liouville's Theorem states that the volume of a phase space, which describes the possible states of a system, is conserved over time. In GR, attractors can be seen as regions in phase space where the volume remains constant, indicating that the gravitational force is constant.

3. What is the significance of Liouville's Theorem in GR?

Liouville's Theorem is significant in GR because it helps us understand the behavior of objects in space-time. It allows us to make predictions about the movement of particles and the formation of structures, such as galaxies, in the universe.

4. Are there different types of attractors in GR?

Yes, there are two main types of attractors in GR: point attractors and limit cycle attractors. Point attractors refer to a single point in space-time where the gravitational force is strongest, while limit cycle attractors refer to regions where the gravitational force is strongest at certain intervals.

5. Can attractors be observed in real life?

Yes, attractors can be observed in real life through the study of celestial bodies and their movements. For example, the Earth orbits around the sun due to the sun's strong gravitational force, making the sun a point attractor in our solar system.

Similar threads

  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
1
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
2
Replies
55
Views
3K
Replies
3
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
15
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
28
Views
2K
  • Special and General Relativity
2
Replies
42
Views
4K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
22
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
7
Views
1K
  • Special and General Relativity
Replies
27
Views
2K
Back
Top