Does Acceleration Affect the Stability of an Atwood Machine in an Elevator?

In summary, the conversation discusses a problem involving an elevator arm that is horizontal when the lift is stationary. The goal is to determine if this remains true when the lift is accelerated upwards at a constant velocity. The conversation also includes equations and solutions for finding the tension in the ropes and the acceleration of the system. There is also a discussion about an alternative approach to thinking about the motion of the system. Lastly, there is a question about a possible error in one of the equations.
  • #1
bananabandana
113
5

Homework Statement


Please see attached for diagram. We know that the elevator arm is horizontal when the lift is stationary, with ## M_{1}=\frac{4M_{2}M_{3}}{(M_{2}+M_{3})}## It wants us to find out if this is still the case when the lift is accelerated upwards at a constant velocity ##g##

Homework Equations

The Attempt at a Solution


Let the tension in the ##M_{1}## rope be ##T_{1}##, that in the rope between the lift and the support for ##M_{2}## and ##M_{3}## be ##T_{A}## and that in the rope between masses ##M_{2}## and ##M_{3}## be ##T_{B}## Take up as positive (i.e lift is moving up at ## +g##) [/B]
Look at ##M_{1}## first:
$$ T_{1}-M_{1}g=M_{1}g \implies T_{1}=2M_{1}g $$

Then look at the ##M_{2},M_{3}## system to work out ##T_{B}##:
$$ T_{B}-M_{2}g=M_{2}(g+a) $$
$$ T_{B}-M_{3}g=M_{3}(g-a) $$
Substitute for ## T_{B}## and rearrange for ## a##:
$$ a = \frac{M_{3}-M_{2}}{M_{3}+M_{2}}g $$
$$ T_{B} = 2M_{2}g+M_{2}a = \frac{4M_{3}M_{2}g}{(M_{3}+M_{2}} $$
Therefore:
$$ T_{A} = 2\times T_{B} = \frac{8M_{3}M_{2}g}{(M_{3}+M_{2})} $$
So the thing is stable when accelerating cosntantly as the torque to ##T_{1}## is balanced by that due to ##T_{A}##, from our relationship for ##M_{1}##.
But I have two questions - one is there not some easier (intuitive way) to think about the motion of the system in the accelerating frame that I wasn't smart enough to find? - and two - when I first did the problem I wrote down:
$$ T_{A}-2T_{B} = (M_{2}+M_{3})g $$ - I figure this is false because there is no mass in the rope, so that even if it is accelerating with speed ##g## then we don't need to worry about ##M_{2}## and ##M_{3}## as they are already taken care of by the tension?

Thanks!
 

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  • #2
You made a transcription error when typing this out. a should be twice what you wrote, but you get the right TB in the next line.
Seems to me that the acceleration of the lift is equivalent to a change in the value of g. Since g does not feature in the balance equation for the stationary case, changing it cannot change the equation.
For the second question, you'll need to explain your rationale for writing that equation.
 

What is an Atwood Machine in an Elevator?

An Atwood Machine in an elevator is a physical system that consists of two masses connected by a string or rope passing over a pulley, and is used to demonstrate Newton's laws of motion in an elevator or other accelerating frame of reference.

What are the components of an Atwood Machine in an Elevator?

The components of an Atwood Machine in an elevator include two masses of unequal weight, a string or rope, and a pulley. The pulley is typically attached to the ceiling of the elevator, while the two masses are suspended on either side of the pulley by the string.

How does an Atwood Machine in an Elevator work?

The Atwood Machine in an elevator works by utilizing the force of gravity and the tension in the string to create an unbalanced force on the two masses. As the elevator accelerates, the tension in the string and the forces acting on the two masses change, allowing for the demonstration of Newton's laws of motion.

What are some real-world applications of the Atwood Machine in an Elevator?

The Atwood Machine in an elevator has several real-world applications, including in elevators and other forms of transportation that experience acceleration or deceleration. It is also used in physics classrooms to demonstrate and study Newton's laws of motion.

How can an Atwood Machine in an Elevator be used to study Newton's laws of motion?

The Atwood Machine in an elevator can be used to study Newton's laws of motion by varying the masses and acceleration of the elevator. By measuring the tension in the string and the motion of the masses, one can calculate and observe the forces acting on the system, providing a practical demonstration of Newton's laws.

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