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Australian gun reform

  1. Jun 23, 2016 #1

    wolram

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    Last edited by a moderator: Jun 27, 2016
  2. jcsd
  3. Jun 23, 2016 #2
  4. Jun 23, 2016 #3

    davenn

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    the difference is that us Australians didn't/don't have a constitutional right to bear arms
    so the govt. had no real opposition to disarming the population

    Gun violence still exists and always will because illegal guns are easy to obtain
    and they are un constant use during robberies and general homicides.
    There's hardly a week that goes by here that there isn't several people shot


    Dave
     
  5. Jun 25, 2016 #4

    Evo

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    Isn't that constitutional right to bear arms for forming a militia?

    https://www.law.cornell.edu/wex/second_amendment

    And no, this will not be a discussion on guns, the study is about the reduction of homicides in Australia. Please keep the conversation about the study. Thank you.

    The mentors are discussing whether the study can be discussed in a rational manor. Think about that before you post.
     
    Last edited: Jun 25, 2016
  6. Jun 25, 2016 #5

    berkeman

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    I read through the article, but didn't see what firearms are not prohibited. Is it just these?

    No pistols/revolvers?
     
  7. Jun 26, 2016 #6

    Astronuc

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    The last paragraph in the article states
    So perhaps it refers to semi-automatic pistols as well.

    I do think it a matter of keeping firearms out of the hands of crazy people.

    Gun-loving mom kills daughters before being fatally shot by cops
    :)) What insanity!

    https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-mom-fatally-shoots-2-015754508.html
    A problem with the current system is that it acts after the fact, not before the fact. This woman should not have had access to access, but apparently she legally did. Why did the husband allow her to have access to guns, especially given their domestic strife?

    The Texas Mother Who Shot Daughters Had a Mental Illness History, Reports Say
    https://www.yahoo.com/news/texas-mother-shot-daughters-had-080022122.html
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  8. Jun 26, 2016 #7

    MarneMath

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  9. Jun 26, 2016 #8
    If you are interested in Australian laws and its effect on crime New Zealand is worth a look. We don't have the same level of control as Australia and I don't think we have a high level of gun crime. It is increasing though. We are allowed semi-auto rifles and shotguns with some limitations on type i.e. Military vs hunting style. We are allowed Military style for sport under a special license. Pistols are allowed under a special license also.

    Our laws were changed to this current structure after a mass shooting some 6 years before the Port Arthur incident in Australia. Our police do not carry arms about their persons but do have them available in a locked box in their car. We do have a large number of firearms in the general population and most gun incidents involve hunting style firearms.

    It seems their is more to it than just availability.
     
  10. Jun 27, 2016 #9

    nsaspook

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    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  11. Jun 27, 2016 #10

    SteamKing

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    And that's why the text of the Second Amendment says "the right of the People to keep and bear arms ..." and not "the right of the Militia to keep and bear arms ..."

    The U.S. Supreme Court cases D.C. v. Heller (2008) and later McDonald v. City of Chicago (2010) both upheld the right of the individual under the Second Amendment to possess a firearm for lawful protection.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/District_of_Columbia_v._Heller

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McDonald_v._City_of_Chicago
     
  12. Jun 27, 2016 #11

    Evo

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    It's the right of the people to keep and bear arms to form a militia, the government wasn't paying for them. Since then the gun lobbyists got the meaning changed.


    http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/pages/front...onservatives-reinvented-the-second-amendment/


    But we've strayed from the topic, so no more off topic posts, this is about the report in the OP, all other posts will be deleted.
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  13. Jun 27, 2016 #12

    nsaspook

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    http://www.latimes.com/science/sciencenow/la-sci-sn-gun-control-australia-20160622-snap-story.html
    What did researchers actually say in the paper.
    http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2530362
     
  14. Jun 27, 2016 #13

    Evo

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    And the final conclusion.

    It doesn't matter that suicides and other deaths may have declined, we are only concerned with the decrease in crimes of mass shootings. That's what we are concerned with. Do you really think Orlando victims and Paris victims and Brussels victims care about suicide victim statistics?
     
    Last edited: Jun 27, 2016
  15. Jun 28, 2016 #14

    nsaspook

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    It mattered to the researchers in their conclusion and Relevance. (Briefly summarize the overall conclusion of the data analysis based on the purpose of the study.)

    I can't and won't speak for what the victims would care about. I only mourn their deaths at the hands of terrorists.
     
  16. Jun 28, 2016 #15

    jim hardy

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  17. Jun 28, 2016 #16

    nsaspook

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    The actual research paper (using standard statistical models) that's the source of data on the OP link agrees with this study.
     
  18. Jun 28, 2016 #17

    jim hardy

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    ?

     
  19. Jun 28, 2016 #18

    Evo

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    That study is all over the place. From the study
    What we're really interested in is if there is a decrease in mass homicides, Australia didn't really have that many. I don't think we can compare this to the US, there are too many automatic and semi automatic weapons that aren't even registered that wouldn't be found. Canada also implemented a ban. We can't compare other countries to the US.
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
  20. Jun 28, 2016 #19

    jim hardy

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    Ahhh found it , page 7 of 29 .

    in the interest of good faith reporting , very next sentence says
    So their own researchers aren't sure. Not surprising for as you said the numbers are small.

    In such an emotional issue it is a challenge to remain unbiased.
    The Science Daily reporter linked in post #1 openly favors the gun ban
    here's his closing paragraph
    Despite the contrary conclusion of the very JAMA paper he was writing about .
    (here it is, from the bottom of SD article) http://jama.jamanetwork.com/article.aspx?articleid=2530362

    Now i don't mind the Science Daily guy editorializing
    but he should have reported truthfully on the paper he cited
    Here's its closing paragraph:
    and he should have explained why Simon Chapman 's statement disagreed with the JAMA paper
    because taken at face value it suggests Chapman
    1. either didn't know the conclusion made by the report he allegedly co-authored
    or
    2. outright lied about it.


    I can't say whether Australia's mass homicide rate is down i don't go there so don't know.

    Just saying i dislike being manipulated by "journalists" trying to sway me to buy into their prejudice.


    old jim

     
  21. Jun 28, 2016 #20

    OCR

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    Can we please, please, use the correct terminology?
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_firearm
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Automatic_firearm#Uses


    Carry on...
     
    Last edited: Jun 28, 2016
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