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Automobile Power Generator

  1. Mar 19, 2009 #1
    Most are familiar with dynamometers that measure torque and horsepower output of the automobile drive train. The auto's drive wheels are driven onto a set of rollers and the output of the system is measured at various speeds. I am wondering if an electric power generator could be driven in this manner? The auto cruise control perhaps could be used to maintain a constant voltage and frequency at various load levels.
     
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  3. Mar 19, 2009 #2

    mgb_phys

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    It could but it would be a lot of effort for no obvious reason!
    Tractors and some 4x4 vehicles have power-take-off shafts ( a drive shaft coming out of the front) that let you connect equipement. such as a generator powered by the engine.
     
  4. Mar 19, 2009 #3
    A lot of effort? Driving your car onto a set of rollers is a lot of effort? For no obvious reason? The very plain obvious reason for this is to generate power for the home. Not everybody has a tractor with a power take off but most everybody has a car. Besides, before I would consider buying a tractor or a 4x4 to power my home I would buy a generator from Home Depot. Much simpler and cheaper. My question was one of engineering curiosity not necessarily something I am advocating to do. By the way, power takeoffs are never on the front of tractors.
     
  5. Mar 19, 2009 #4

    russ_watters

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    He's not talking about the effort of using it he's talking about the effort of building it. The main benefit would be as backup power in the event of an emergency, but the effort (and money) to build it is almost certainly more than it would cost to just buy a stand-alone generator.

    In addition, a stand-alone generator would be vastly more efficient.
     
  6. Mar 19, 2009 #5

    Danger

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    I'm not sure about tractors (although I know that they can come off of the side and I think that I recall a front one on a Cockshutt from my youth). Mgb mentioned 4x4's as well. Many of them have PTO winches that can be on the front or the back. Front is favoured.
     
  7. Mar 19, 2009 #6

    ^^This^^

    Why build something that has inherent losses through the transmission and contact to a rolling road, making it less efficient and more expensive than a diesel generator?

    Yes it can be done, but it shouldnt.
     
  8. Mar 19, 2009 #7

    Averagesupernova

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    I hate to sound like Yoda, but, wrong you are.
     
  9. Mar 19, 2009 #8
    http://www.frontlinkinc.com/zuidberg/products/front-pto-system.html" [Broken]
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  10. Mar 20, 2009 #9
    OK, I'm wrong. Sorry.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: May 4, 2017
  11. Mar 20, 2009 #10

    Ranger Mike

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    no you are not wrong...don't ever give up an idea becuase of what is said
    give it up once you do a thorugh analysis and the facts determine the cousre of action

    your idea of a back up plan for power generation has merit...roller aparatus can be fabricated relatively cheap..will have effciency less than 100% due to HP loss thru drive train and roller contact..but..beats buying a $ 4000 Diesel generator used once a year

    but will take up a lot of floor space..require major reqire to close off power supplied by electric company..the line workes really get miffed whe nthey tap into a power line that is supposed to be dead..ZZZZZZAAAAPPPPPPPP
    ouch!!
    hey..
    go for it...
     
  12. Mar 20, 2009 #11
    Thinking about it, its acutally probably not as outlandish as it first sounds.

    With a diesel engine car (front wheel drive only) and a flange attached straight to the wheel hub (assuming no PTO) there would be only fairly small losses from the transmission. All you'd need to go would be to jack the front of the car up. So it wouldnt be majorly expensive either.

    I'll never be as good (or as cheap probably) as a generator designed to do this but in a pinch it'd work just fine.

    It couldnt feasibly be done with a petrol though.

    EDIT: damn it mike!!! you beat me to it. was looking at diesel generators as you were replying :P
     
  13. Mar 20, 2009 #12

    Ranger Mike

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    two kinds of people . Amigo..the quick
    and the dead..
    old racing habits are hard to break...too many fast pit stops
     
  14. Mar 20, 2009 #13

    mgb_phys

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    For regions that have frequent power loss then generators are already pretty common - more common than cars. In most developed countries power losses are very rare, enough that having a flashlight is probably the most preparation people need.

    But when (if) electric cars become popular there is an idea that they will be used to store grid electricity, not so much for power cuts, but also to level out peaks of supply and demand.
     
  15. Mar 20, 2009 #14

    russ_watters

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    Here's a 3200W gas generator for $500: http://www.electricgeneratorsdirect.com/Generac-5724/p2681.html

    That's plenty to power everything in a home minus air conditioning and electric heating applications (heat, stove, water heater, etc). That's pretty friggin cheap for that much capacity.

    Now if you wanted to integrate it (or the car-based one) with your home electrical system, you'd need an umbilical and auto or manual transfer switch, plus automatic load shedding or the discipline/knowledge to manually load shed when you turn it on (flipping circuit breakers for large loads). You could probably build/wire something like that yourself for $1000 or so.

    Or you could do no installation at all and just run a bunch of large extension cords to where you need the power.

    If I lived in a natural disaster prone area, I'd do the manual approach. If I robbed a bank and retired to a non-extradition country with a beach, I'd do the automatic one. Since I live in a thunderstorm prone area with virtually no natural disaster history, long power outages are exceedingly rare. I've had one power outage that wasn't momentary in the 3 years I've lived in my house. It lasted about 4 hours and during that time, I watched a dvd on my laptop while listening to the news on my radio and using my 17 a-h power tank to keep the laptop charged and run a couple of compact fluorescent lamps. I was putting on my shoes to go find the nearest open Wawa with an ice dispenser or dry ice when the power came back on.
     
    Last edited: Mar 20, 2009
  16. Mar 22, 2009 #15
    Conventional dynamometers have two rollers about a foot apart for each wheel, so the car sits easily between them. Be sure to tie the car frame to a tree. The car's engine can easily develop 50 HP at 1500 RPM, so this is probably the best speed to run it. Higher RPMs just wastes gasoline. If possible get a car with a manual transmission- they are more efficient.
     
  17. Mar 22, 2009 #16
    Bob the engine is operating at its least efficient at no load and closed throttle. The increase in sfc makes getting a manual a bit of a non issue. For this to be feasable it'd have to be a diesel or nothing.

    I was going to have a WTF moment at 50hp at 1500rpm, but I keep having to remind myself that you all have collossal V8's over there.
     
  18. Mar 23, 2009 #17

    russ_watters

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    50 HP is 37 kW. The OP didn't say what we're powering here, but you could power an all-electric heat/appliance house on Thanksgiving with 20! Under normal circumstances a house with gas appliances could be powered with 3 if you aren't using the air conditioning.
     
  19. Mar 23, 2009 #18

    Averagesupernova

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    Been there, done that. A 5Kw ran the oven that baked the turkey and something else stuffed in there, can't remember what it was though. 3Kw lightly loaded ran a crock pot or 2. Coleman camp stove for mashed potatoes. As soon as the oven went off, fridge and freezer got plugged back in and the furnace turned back up and lights were used more liberally. I'm not sure some of the relatives really believed the comercial power was off. Getting by without commercial power isn't that difficult at all for less than a couple of days. Makes you appreciate what you pay for commercial power when you have to generate your own power.
     
  20. Mar 23, 2009 #19

    Ranger Mike

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    We took a 5 k generator to the race track once
    Barely ran the small air compressor
    And battery charger
    Forget it
    I think min of 10 k
    For house
     
  21. Mar 23, 2009 #20

    Averagesupernova

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    Starting an air compressor and running electric heating such as an oven and crock pots or electric lights are 2 different things. I've used the same 5KW generator to start a small compressor too and it would barely do it. It just depends on what you want to do in your house. Not too likely there will be any hard starting loads other than an automatic washing machine.
     
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